QLD EPM Law's (watch this space)( Well here It Is )

First topic message reminder :

Hi All
As Boobook suggested here is a new thread to discuss this matter.
Last week as a result of the discussion on Maka's thread, I contacted the Mining Registrar at Charters Towers N QLD, I asked them to send me an email outlining the access restrictions on ground covered by an EPM here in QLD.
They confirmed verbaly that there is no requirement to gain permission from a holder of an EPM.
We will know for certain once I have the email which I will post here for all to see.

This should clear it all up HAPPY PROSPECTING QUEENSLANDERS!!!!!!!!!!
Good morning Lee.

An exploration permit (EP) does not affect your ability to enter land to fossick, as the holder of an EP is not considered to "occupy" land.

As stated in the Fossicking Act 1994:
Section 27 - Licencee must get permission to fossick on occupied land etc.
(1) A licencee must not fossick -
(a) on occupied land (other than a road reserve, designated fossicking land or a fossicking area) without the owners written permission; or
(b) on land to which a mining claim or mining lease applies without the claim or lease holder's written permission; or
(c) on land where a person may take quarry materials under a quarry materials permit without the permit holders written position. (a quarry materials permit is an agreement, licence, permit or other authority under the Forestry Act 1959 or an allocation of quarry material under the Water Act 2000)

For all of the above, "written permission" is the endorsement of your licence by the occupier of the land. Exploration permits are not included in the above list and so fossicking in the area of an EP is allowed with no permission from the holder of the EP required. Please note, permission from the land holder is still required. For your own safety, do not approach any area of current workings on an EP, a distance of at least 50 metres is strongly recommended.

Further information on fossicking is contained here:
http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/F/FossickingA94.pdf - Fossicking Act 1994
http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/F/FossickingR09.pdf - Fossicking Regulation 2009
http://mines.industry.qld.gov.au/mining/fossicking.htm - information on our website relating to fossicking

Other links which may be of use are:
http://mines.industry.qld.gov.au/geoscience/interactive-resource-tenure-maps.htm - the Interactive Resource and Tenure Map. This will let you identify where mining tenure and other items of interest are.
http://mines.industry.qld.gov.au/mining/mines-online-tenure-enquiry-reports.htm - You can access the public enquiry reports on mining tenure here, should you wish to contact tenure holders regarding permission to access.

Please let me know if you have any further questions. You can contact this office on 4761 5762.


Mining and Petroleum Operations
Mines
Department of Employment, Economic Development and Innovation
27-43 Natal Downs Road, Charters Towers, QLD 4820
PO Box 62, Charters Towers Q 4820
T: 07 47615762
F: 07 47615760
Q: 32752

Customer Service Centre 13 25 23
www.mines.industry.qld.gov.au





cheers
Lee

I'm starting to sound like a broken record but I'll say it again. Don't piss around with Public Servants, go straight to the Minister and get it from Him or Her.
The buck stops with the Minister, he or she will get the info from a dumb f*ck public servant but at least you will have the letter to back your argument.

Hi All
Just recieved this email in response to some enquiry, my source did not mention anything about displaying her info so I guess we know who the fool was who complained



I'm just touching base, as I have just this morning responded to a gentleman who I believe was referring to the info I gave you on fossicking in the area of an Exploration Permit.

It appears that there is some confusion over the response given to him by someone in our Brisbane office regarding this matter, so I thought I'd make sure that you had the same info as I've given him.

As I've previously stated, the holder of a Fossicking Licence does not require consent from the holder of an Exploration Permit to enter land as an Exploration Permit does not give any rights to the land, other that the right of entry once all relevant provisions of the Mineral Resources Act 1989 are complied with. They are not considered to be a holder or occupier of land.

It seems that there may be some confusion regarding the differences between a Prospecting Permit and a Fossicking Licence.

A Prospecting Permit (PP) is a mining tenure administered under the Mineral Resources Act 1989. It gives the holder of the PP a legal right of entry, once the notifications required under the Act have been issued, to carry out activities relating to either pegging a mining claim or mining lease, hand mining or prospecting, depending on which of these the PP was granted for. Further information can be found in the Act, http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/M/MineralReA89.pdf (Part 3).

The only consent a PP holder would require from an Exploration Permit holder would be consent to enter within 50 metres laterally of a place where activies are being carried out under that EP. There is no consent required from the EP holder for entry to the land other than this , again because an EP gives no right to the holder other than the right of entry.

A Fossicking Licence is administered under the Fossicking Act 1994 and does not give the holder any rights to enter land if the land is considered to be occupied. Thisis satisfied when the occupier of the land (as described under section 27 of the Fossicking Act, below) signs (endorses) your fossicking licence. Please note, this permission must be in writing and must be from all owners of the land/lease/claim/quarry permit.

A holder of an Exploration Permit (EP) is not considered to be an occupier of land under the Fossicking Act 1994 and as such, no consent is required from the EP holder to any entry of land by the holder of a fossicking licence. For your own safety you should not approach any area of current workings on an EP, a distance of 50 metres from any workings is strongly recommended (in line with the requirements for a PP). There is certainly no restrictions on fossicking in the area of an EP, provided that you have the required consent from any occupier of the land.

If land is considered to be unoccupied, such as Unoccupied State Land (USL), no consent is required and you may enter to fossick. The Department of Environment and Resource Management can assist you to identify any USL and can be contacted on 4799 7200.

Also, any land that is designated as fossicking land does not require consent to enter. In some cases a landholder may give the State a "General Permission", which also means that there is no requirement to gain consent before entering the land to fossick. Information on these areas can be found on our website at http://mines.industry.qld.gov.au/mining/fossicking-areas.htm

It should also be noted that a fossicking licence does not authorise entry to land where there has been a determination of Native Title unless the holder of the licence is also a party to an Indigenous Land Use Agreement with the determined native title holders. There are no determined areas within the Charters Towers District, however I can supply a map showing determined areas in other districts should you need them.

So it appears that this person is 100% confident in thier response to law's,

Boobook sent me a PM saying he has some info so we will see if everyone is on the same page soon I guess
cheers
Lee


.

Great update Lee

Hi Boobook
So that we can clear this issue up, can you please respond to my latest post as you are the one that has challenged what I have put up, It would appear that my source is 100% confident in what they are saying, so to generate agreater understanding for all who may read this thread I believe we need to reach a consensus/ outcome otherwise there are to many ????????????? left unanswered.
So can you confirm on the back of the latest info from the Registrar that you agree or do we need to dig deeper.
thanks Mike

cheers
Lee

Lee.
Dont get your knickers in a twist.
I said I would write to the minister, I have, my correspondance has been acknowledged and I am awaiting a reply.
Once received the reply will be posted here subject to any confidentiality requirements.

For what it is worth, my original comment "be wary if on an active/granted EPM" was not in any meant to discourage detecting, but because I believe the holder of an EPM has an excusive right to the area, which, from my perspective was confirmed.

If you care to Google "Gunnersons" you will find a legal opinion from the law firm Minter Ellison which also confirms this view.

However, I will let the minister have the final say on this, it will certainly not affect me either way.
mike

boobook wrote:Lee.
Dont get your knickers in a twist.
I said I would write to the minister, I have, my correspondance has been acknowledged and I am awaiting a reply.
Once received the reply will be posted here subject to any confidentiality requirements.

For what it is worth, my original comment "be wary if on an active/granted EPM" was not in any meant to discourage detecting, but because I believe the holder of an EPM has an excusive right to the area, which, from my perspective was confirmed.

If you care to Google "Gunnersons" you will find a legal opinion from the law firm Minter Ellison which also confirms this view.

However, I will let the minister have the final say on this, it will certainly not affect me either way.
mike

Hi Mike
No twist here, I know you said you were away, All my intention was to get an outcome obviously we both have different views, it seems quite clear to me that "my source" would have double checked the info after being ??? on that info provided, so to me I have been provided with the info to freely prospect on EPM's with land holders permission!!

However I do have to disagree with you about the paragraph above "For what it's worth" I believe the origional comments made by you, outlined below where made to discourage detecting on EPM's ( if not intended) this is almost a certainty as most people would stear clear of these area's due to the threat of legal action.

[b]I am not trying to antagonise this is my opinion & your's will no doubt differ.


Re: Where would you start
boobook on Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:58 pm
• Just looking at your locality map.
If it were me, I would be very wary I was not on an active EP without permission.

Re: Where would you start
boobook on Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:21 am
Hi Makaw.
It was even easy enough for me to pick where you are talking about. (not a Qlder)
The area is granted EPM18194, I would not like you to be sprung by the titleholders without permission.

boobook
Member


Posts: 36
Join date: 2011-12-06
________________________________________
Age: 74
Location: Top of the Range NSW




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So if you are caught on my EPM or ML without my permission I take action simply to protect myself. I would also point out that the establishment of any mining tenure is not a cheap exersize done for the benefit of all and sundry.

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Re: Where would you start
boobook on Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:59 am
Lee.
Here is an extract regarding Qld. Tenements (minerals) and I quote:
"The holder of an Exploration Permit for Minerals (EPM) under the Qld. Mineral Resourses Act 1989 obtains a right of entry on to the specified land for the purposes of undertaking exploration activities for specified minerals, subject to certain obligations regarding notice of entry on to land and payments of compensation for damage.
An EPM grants to the holder of the permit an excusive right to explore for minerals specified in the grant, within the area of the licence. The holder of an EPM also has a priority right to the grant of a MDL or Mining Lease over the subject land." end quote.

As a partner in holding EPM's and ML's in Western Qld., I can assure you that anyone caught on any of those tenements without permission is dealt with by law.
mike



cheers
Lee

G'day Lee.
Methink you do a bit of "cherry picking" here.
At least you could have mentioned the fact that I said anyone who asks my permission to go onto our areas would be given written permission with conditions.

As I said, I will post the reply when received and accept the determination.
In the meantime lets not allow this to get into a pissing competition.
mike

I have received the reply from the office of the Minister of ES&M Qld.
There is a preamble regarding the fact the govt. is in caretaker mode prior to the elections which may have caused a slight delay.
However, the "short" answer is yes, the holder of a currect fossicking licence has no restriction gaining access to a granted EP provided that written permission is given by the landowner/lessee.
I accept this decision without reservation, we (and I suspect many other EP holders) have been under the impression we were entitled to exclusive use of the permit land area.
So I am eating humble pie for lunch today.

I will copy the reply to Bignuggs to post as he sees fit regarding disclaimers.

Just one last thought, if anyone decides to head out W.Qld to do a bit of opal noodling, and a rough looking bugger comes out of the scrub waving a 12 gauge and yelling in very broken English "get of my effing eepee you...." dont pull out your fossicking licence to argue the point.
mike

Hi Mike
Well done on getting the answer from the Minister this will certainly clear things up for everyone, good job.

Do you mind sending the reply to me by email so that I can forwrd it to the Admin of the other forums I frequent, so we may enlighten many more people
thanks
Have a golden year
Lee

G'day Lee.
This is the only forum in which I have entered on this topic.

I have accepted (but not necessarily agreed with) the decision presented to me.

I will not approve of any information posted on DWAG forum under my name, which was provided to me by a third party, being published on any other public forum whether or not I am a member/contributor of that forum.
mike

Farkin Great

So when can i bring the Dozer and fire off a few shots in ya rock

Only Jokin but it is good to see something has come to fruition like this guys, well done.


Pete

Pete.
You dont need a dozer over here, just a 30 tonne excavator with 5 tiger teeth across the bucket.
The diggins easy enough and the tiger teeth scratch nicely across a boulder.
But the opals a bit scarce so blokes end up with a thirst you can take a photo of and nothin left over for fuel.
Further east the golds just sittin on the ground, most dont even bother pickin it up.
They just head over west where you got ta get a friggin section 20a permit to do nearly enything. Not like that fossickin permit,eh!
ps. gettin ready to make the applications now, we're heading over.
mike

Mike

Good stuff mate hope yous have a great trip over and get a few dabs for ya time..

Pete

Here's a letter and for obvious reasons all names, email addresses and phone numbers have been censored. Make of it what you will. It's a 2 pager so 2 pics. My scanner ain't that good.
I know nothing about the QLD Mining Laws so I can only suggest if you require clarification regarding the Prospectors Permit, maybe send another letter.