QLD EPM Law's (watch this space)( Well here It Is )

Hi All
As Boobook suggested here is a new thread to discuss this matter.
Last week as a result of the discussion on Maka's thread, I contacted the Mining Registrar at Charters Towers N QLD, I asked them to send me an email outlining the access restrictions on ground covered by an EPM here in QLD.
They confirmed verbaly that there is no requirement to gain permission from a holder of an EPM.
We will know for certain once I have the email which I will post here for all to see.

This should clear it all up HAPPY PROSPECTING QUEENSLANDERS!!!!!!!!!!
Good morning Lee.

An exploration permit (EP) does not affect your ability to enter land to fossick, as the holder of an EP is not considered to "occupy" land.

As stated in the Fossicking Act 1994:
Section 27 - Licencee must get permission to fossick on occupied land etc.
(1) A licencee must not fossick -
(a) on occupied land (other than a road reserve, designated fossicking land or a fossicking area) without the owners written permission; or
(b) on land to which a mining claim or mining lease applies without the claim or lease holder's written permission; or
(c) on land where a person may take quarry materials under a quarry materials permit without the permit holders written position. (a quarry materials permit is an agreement, licence, permit or other authority under the Forestry Act 1959 or an allocation of quarry material under the Water Act 2000)

For all of the above, "written permission" is the endorsement of your licence by the occupier of the land. Exploration permits are not included in the above list and so fossicking in the area of an EP is allowed with no permission from the holder of the EP required. Please note, permission from the land holder is still required. For your own safety, do not approach any area of current workings on an EP, a distance of at least 50 metres is strongly recommended.

Further information on fossicking is contained here:
http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/F/FossickingA94.pdf - Fossicking Act 1994
http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/F/FossickingR09.pdf - Fossicking Regulation 2009
http://mines.industry.qld.gov.au/mining/fossicking.htm - information on our website relating to fossicking

Other links which may be of use are:
http://mines.industry.qld.gov.au/geoscience/interactive-resource-tenure-maps.htm - the Interactive Resource and Tenure Map. This will let you identify where mining tenure and other items of interest are.
http://mines.industry.qld.gov.au/mining/mines-online-tenure-enquiry-reports.htm - You can access the public enquiry reports on mining tenure here, should you wish to contact tenure holders regarding permission to access.

Please let me know if you have any further questions. You can contact this office on 4761 5762.


Mining and Petroleum Operations
Mines
Department of Employment, Economic Development and Innovation
27-43 Natal Downs Road, Charters Towers, QLD 4820
PO Box 62, Charters Towers Q 4820
T: 07 47615762
F: 07 47615760
Q: 32752

Customer Service Centre 13 25 23
www.mines.industry.qld.gov.au





cheers
Lee

i'm quite excited about this. i hope they respond to you.

Hi All
I just contacted the Registrar's office she said she was very busy & going away for the week back on Friday, so I guess it's just like all Govt dept's to keep us in suspense.
Sorry about the delay I was hoping to have it early this week.
cheers
Lee

in all seriousness, you'll be lucky to have it by the end of the month if at all.

but fingers crossed you do get your response. like all g'ment departments, keep nagging away, when they realise you won't be going anywhere, hopefully they will respond.

WHOH .. Thats some news alright if its correct...
So if its true, i can gain access to an EPM and not get shot at?
I dare say jumping leases will result in a good buck shooting to the rump , but if i can play on an EPM i will be stoked..

Hi All
I have added the information to my origional post at the top.
cheers
Lee

Thanks mate , your a legend... That clears everything up for me and plenty of others...

Hi Maka
No problem mate that was the intention to help everyone, thats the great thing about prospectors allways willing to help each other,
cheers
Lee

Goldbait wrote:in all seriousness, you'll be lucky to have it by the end of the month if at all.

but fingers crossed you do get your response. like all g'ment departments, keep nagging away, when they realise you won't be going anywhere, hopefully they will respond.

i believe i should start eating my own words.. lol...

i've requested this post be sticky'd

G'day Lee.
Thanks for your good contribution to this subject, I am not in any way against your or makaw or anyone elses desire to fossick on land with the owners permission but my opinion regarding EPM's remains.

You have quoted the Qld. Fossicking Act 1994, and that the Mining Registra has advised you that an EP (exploration permit) does not form part of the act.

See Part 1 Preliminaries: definitinions; exploration permit (see sect 8/1.)
Section 8 Meaning of Expressions: includes mineral development leases, mining claims, mining leases and exploration permits. (mineral resources act)

In reality, all any Mining Registra can offer is an opinion as to the Act. If a complainant issues a writ it is up to the Court to decide the outcome, which in a Civil matter is decided on Balance of Probability.

This might be that the holder of an EP (Blue Skies NL) apprehends you carrying a metal detector and tools anywhere on the EP and takes you to Court.
With all the ambiguities and interpretations of the Acts, the odds would not be with the defendant without top legal representation. And either way it would be costly.

From your point of view it now only needs to be put to the test.
mike

Hi Mike
I believe it is not me who needs to put this information to the test, I have provided this info here to help others as I have known what the law's are for the last 5 years as this was one of the first ??? I asked when I started, I think if you are still convinced that your OPINION is correct that you should follow this matter up & put the hypotheticals to the Mines Dept, we have these Law's in place so that everyone is aware of their responsabilities, from what I have provided it is clear that there is no requirement to gain permission from the holder of an EPM as they hold no tenure on the land itself, the reason for an EPM as I have come to understand is that a company holds the right to conduct exploration work on that land using heavy equipment to exclusion of all other companies & not the fossicker, one more thing the damage that these companies do with costeans, drill pad construction & the like without the need to rectify is disgracfull considering that we have to fill all holes, I have personally seen this damage if you are wondering ( costean cut on a ridge down slope without erosion control)

I do not believe the info offered by the Registrar is just an opinion.
If you have a case study to offer where a fossicker has been charged with accessing an EPM without permission ( which is not required anyway ) please do so, If not please refrain from using the threat of legal action agaisnt the fossicker as a detterant, as you would be well aware access in this state is difficult at times & we do not need to discourage people from excersing thier right.

Don't take this as a personall attack I just feel that a couple of points needed to be raised, like I said I only gained this info for the benifit of all.
cheers
Lee

Lee.
Just to make you feel happy I telephoned the Department of Mineral Resources in Brisbane this morning and was told thus:
A person can enter a granted EPM in Qld. PROVIDED they have the written permission of the land owner/lessee and a current PROSPECTING PERMIT (either parcel or district).
A FOSSICKING LICENCE does NOT give access, nor does landowner permission without the prospecting permit. (this was emphasised)
Anyone apprehended by the EPM holder who does NOT have a prospecting permit or the holder of the EMP's permission may be prosecuted.
It is also incumbent on the prospecting permit holder to not approach closer than 50m. of current work.

Some of this is as you claim, the important bit is not.

It also means that makaw (or anyone) can obtain a prospecting permit ($103 valid for 3 months) and get to work on those EPM's. It was mentioned that it is expected the holder of the prospecting permit will notify the holder of the EPM of his intensions.
And as I pointed out much earlier, we will give permission (with conditions) to anyone who asks. (not that anyone would want opal at the moment!)

This can be confirmed by contacting
mike

Hi Mike
I'm always happy, but that's not the point here.
What you have said is interesting in that it is in direct contradiction of the info I have displayed directly from the email I recieved from the Registrar, can you please get your info in writing from the person you contacted with reference to the legislation, I have done my bit, but if you are getting diferent advice then that needs to be posted here, hearsay is not good enough with obvious reason, there is alot of conflicting info here, it needs to be cleared up totally.
I will raise the question with the Registrar that I spoke to get an explanation of why there is a difference of info, Christ we need to be on the same play sheet atleast.
Once again no harm intended this is a good healthy debate which will benifit all
Cheers
Lee

Hi Lee.
I have no problem with that, I shall call the Department again Thur. am. and ask that the information be put into an email to me.
I will also quote the source of your information, being the deputy registra in Charters Towers.

Yes, I agree the dilemna requires clearing up and from my perspective it is now far less cloudy.
The only party permitted without our permission on our EPM's must have a valid Prospectors Permit.
I will accept that without any further argument.

This actually makes it similar to the Section 20a certificate issued in WA, both valid 3 months, WA $25, Qld $103.

I will report back
Regards mike

Hi Mike
Thanks for that, if you want PM me your email & I will forward the email to you that I got from the Registrar.
cheers
Lee

Here is the email I received today from DEEDI Qld. regarding access to granted EPM's in Qld.

Hi Michael, In reference to your inquiries about prospecting permits, pursuant to section 19(5) of the minerals resources act 1989, a permit holder may enter land to within 50m laterally where activities are carried out under an exploration permit with the written consent of the exploration holder. if your queries specifically refers to the charters towers district then it would be advisable that you contact the mining registrar in that district for further advise.

Thanks


Brisbane District Office
Southern Region Mines
Department of Employment, Economic Development and Innovation
Land Centre, Podium 2, Ground Floor
PO Box 1475, Coorparoo. QLD. 4151
Phone: (07) 34062123 Fax: (07) 34055347

website: www.deedi.qld.gov.au
We’re behind the Bid!
GOLD COAST 2018 - XXI COMMONWEALTH GAMES CANDIDATE CITY
www.goldcoast2018bid.com



From
Sent: Thursday, 16 February 2012 9:49 AM
To:
Subject: Access to granted EPM's

Good Morning
I spoke with you yesterdy am regarding legal access to granted EPM's in Qld.

I was seeking clarification, as an acquaintance is under the belief that other than written permission by the landowner/lessee, a Qld. Fossicking Licence is the only requirement needed to permit legal access to fossick on a granted EPM without the Permit Holders permission.

This information was provided to him in email form by , Charters Towers.

From our converstion this is not correct, and that a current Prospecting Permit is required, either parcel or district. (other than written permission by the holder of the EPM)
As a partner/holder of EPM's in W.Qld. (opal) this is my held belief confirmed by yourself.

Would you be kind enough to confirm by email reply, the scope/limitations of a Fossickers Licence together with the rights of the holder of a Prospecting Permit (minerals). in regard to EPM's

Thanking You.
With Regards.

Michael Hayes

Hi Mike
Thanks for that info, although you mention Fossicking permit & prospecting permit in your questions, the response you received only mentions prospecting permits.
Can the law's be different by region?????????? what the fudge.
They keep throwing up more questions than answers, if the can't get it right how can we.
cheers
Lee

Lee.
I left my comments out pending response.
I did reply asking for further explanation to my request but without (today) reply.

What I was given could be looked at 3 ways,

a/ Mr. considers the only legal access to an EP area is by a prospecting permit and EP holder permission and therefore requires no further explanation,
or,
b/ the bloody act is so ambiguous that to delve deeper simply opens a departmental pandoras box.
then,
c/ Ms. confuses a Fossicking licence with a Prospecting Permit.
(when one looks at the relating act, the licence seems to only apply to those fossicking areas mentioned in the schedules)

The REAL problem lies insomuch as an innocent person reads these forum threads, reckons all is good, steps onto some EP he never knew existed, gets pinged and the bloody "leagle eagles" swoop down for their feast.
Perhaps it was me who opened that bloody box, but it certainly not with malintent. You are spot on about the Q's and A's

I hope there is more information made available
mike

Hi Mike
I think your right they just don't know how to read the law's.
The thing about the Fossicking liscence/ permit is, that it is the absolute minimum requirement to conduct any form of fossicking in QLD not just in designated Fossicking area's but the whole state, wheather panning, sluiceing, dryblowing, fossil gathering, detecting & gem's. the next step up which deals with a specific area is the Prospecting permit, then EPM, MDL , Mining Claim, Mining Lease.
I think this is were some confusion has occured, Fossicking Vs Prospecting, for all intents and purposes although we call it gold prospecting we are gold fossicking.
cheers, I await clearer information!!! I won't hold my breath.
Lee

Hi Fella's

Can I offer a suggestion. When you get the next reply, write to the QLD minister of mines, attach what you have been told so far and ask for the official LAWS.
The minister has to reply to you. It will take a bit of time but once you have it in black & white, if there are any problems, just show people the letter from the minister.
It will more than likely be passed onto the legal department. It's their job to supply the correct information.

cheers
Cliff

Bignuggs.
The words of genius!
Why could not a poor silly bugger like me think of that?

So even though I sit on the side of the fence with a share in EP.s and ML.s (actually retired but name is still on there and like 007 a bloke can never say never) I would like to get all of this straight, for instance why we have waited more than 5yrs. to get 1 EP through, why all the different interpretations and contradictions when filling out applications etc.
The arguments we have had with the local registra (who was the field officer before his boss died and simply slid into the vacancy), it goes on.

We will be in Sydney next week so it will be the weekend before I can draft a letter.
Perhaps half a dozen or so letters may get a decent response, as you so correctly point out Bign, the minister has to reply.
Similar to the copy of a letter squeezed out of the Comm.AG which acknowledged that local govt. was not recognised under the Constitution.
mike

Thanks for the compliment but to me it's just logic. The buck stops with the minister as they say and once you get the letter, it's gunna tell ya's one way or the other.
but you will have the official version.

cheers
Cliff

PS. I've said it before but I'll say it again. I work for the WA government so I have some insight how the pricks work. Ask 2 people the same question and you will get 2 different answers, everyone has their own interpretation. Lucky for me, I don't accept it so I go higher and get the facts.
I've got a lot of enemies

Apparently a QLD government official is scared of having their name attached to information supplied to one of our members which has been posted here and our member and forum has been "threatened".
I have taken the step of removing the names of the QLD government dickheads from the thread but the information supplied stays on the forum.

Cliff

this is an example of what can be placed on the bottom of emails from Governments (its on the bottom of emails I send to people and I have no choice about it). Yes, you have to be careful but governments also have to be careful about the information they send and ensure it is correct.


"DISCLAIMER: The information contained in this email (including attachments) is intended only for the use of the person(s) to whom it is addressed as it may be confidential and contain legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any perusal, use, distribution, copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately advise us by return email and delete the email document".

it's a load of crap, if you don't know your facts, then don't answer. It's simple really. Now I'm gunna have a bundy.

Well then the exact same questions need to be asked again but from a DWAG.FORUM@HOTMAIL.COM
EMAIL ACCOUNT,this in theory would inc all members under the disclaimer Bull Sheet..
More than one way to skin a pussy.

And hey mr G man, why so scared of your name being used on official work related business hmmmm
Is it to simply protect the un trained from the lerned public, or put simply You dont have the balls to back your
supposed knowledge of the relevant Mining Act.

Shame on this Dept of the QLD Gov.

these are my sole opinions and ya got off lightly in my mind.


Pete