Quiet gold

First topic message reminder :

G'day, had an unusual occurrence yesterday whilst out detecting and wondering if anyone else has had the same thing happen to em.
Found an area where there's a bit of small shallow gold about and a few sunbakers sitting on a ironstone/laterite flat. Some of the bits I've been getting are down to 0.1 of a gram.
Using a 17 elliptical n/f coupled to a 5000 yesterday I specked a nugget on the deck and then put coil over it, obvious screaming signal followed.
After walking a further 10 metres I specked another nugget sunbaking and put coil over it but no signal!
Picked nugget up, rubbed it on coil, still no signal!
Took it to a mate detecting nearby, he has a 5k also but using an 18 elliptical n/t coil. Dropped nugget onto his coil and still no noise.
The two sunbakers I got are almost identical in size but one has more mass so is a little heavier (.90 grams)
The other nugget is porous, same size as first sunbaker but weighs .30 grams. Yet can't produce a signal.
Tried using a 14 by 9 coil on the quiet nugget and it finally produced a signal. But only just.
I've never had or seen this before.
Settings I used with the 5k were fine gold, 18 gain, 12 stab , audio type normal, search mode general.
I tried using sharp as a soil timing to get a signal but still nothing.
Took some video footage which I'll try to upload over the weekend but will get a pic up for now of the two pieces of gold.

those species in G&T were the same as at the garret day jase, the story is exactly as written on the forum, minus the negative side if things like the 5k setup etc. your gold is a nugget so should of given a signal due to the solid gold mass. does it give continuity through a multimeter?
interesting and makes you think how mush is out there being walked over.

G'day Martin nah only testing I've done is with different coils. I'm heading to kal now but will get back to you

good vid Jase, that is strange. how much of that type of gold is out there begging to be found?

That vid is interesting and ya really gotta ask yourself, how much of that stuff is still out there and can't be detected.
Can't wait to see the tests with other detectors.
Very bloody interesting

That is a very interesting Vid UTBN, certainly makes you wonder what the hell is going on
Cheers salt-d

G'day guys I tried the bit on a gb2 and it picked it up easily.

Ok. I'm no expert so here's the question.
if the 5000 couldn't pick that up but the gb did, does that mean it wasn't actually a solid nugget but was only loose particles giving the appearance of a solid piece.

nah Cliff--its just the GB2 is still a good noisy machine when it comes to fine gold and larger bits..

Not so much on the deep soils but stringers in quartz she'll ping them all the time.

I'm sure the Eureka Gold will also be up there as it has variable settings as an added advantage..

An old fella from Nullagine used one all the time and bugger me it was a complete waste of time following in his foot steps and trying to ping a piece in his old patches..yep we tried and came out homeless.

Jase if u know someone with a EG machine --have a go with it..

regards
oneday

Maybe Ray, but I reckon there has to be more to it than that.
Identical sized nuggets but one doesn't give a signal on a 5000.
That bit of gold needs to be analysed. why buy a 5000 if it walks over a sunbaker like that.
A gram piece with no signal, there goes $40 to $50 ya just walked over and lost.
Cheers

I suspect that it would be the composition of the nugget, if you can get a faint signal through a smaller coil the piece is obviously conductive, but perhaps with the bigger coil the returning inducted signal from the gold is closer to a mineralization signal and the GB cancels the signal.

If you don't care about the nugget, HIT it with a hammer, this will compact the gold into a more conductive object and "Should" give a signal return on your bigger coil.

Otherwise send it off to ML as others have suggested, wouldn't it be funny if you were walking over a super patch but just couldn't hear the gold

I'd personally hit it with a hammer, i like hitting things with hammers when they are obviously broken, and your gold is obviously broke.

Time to go buy yourself a VLF detector Jase lol...

I'd be interested to see how it goes with an old Extreme with the 11" DD or 14x9 mono.
the machine is far removed from the 5000 and it's worth the experiment time.
Or like the suggestions are going, maybe have a VLF machine for areas where ya not finding anything.

Haha Johno I couldn't use one of those noisy buggers. Ray if you want it I'll send it up to you

hmmmm I don't think the 5k is in question here, run over it with the 5k using the 11inch commander or 8 inch and it should pick it up even at 6inch depth or more, so how great is the 17x11 ?. I know off a mate on here went over a speci with by memory 10-12g's in it with the 17x11 but picked it up using the 11inch.
different coils for different gold, as well as different settings for different gold, you want all that's laying there try your options. And bet you ya still don't get it all.
I'm not saying the 5k can find every piece of gold out there but it's the best detector on the market and I'd say by a decent margin going by what a read today about the ATX.
if ya want to pick up the bread an butter half grammers take the smaller coils , if ya got half a idea you will get 9/10 off them, fairly basic detecting technique, well that's what I was taught.
but what would I know, I'm just a newbie that's enjoyed a few after work   
cheers
jase

ok Jase trust Australia post.
will do a comparison with a few coils on the shelf and a couple of other detectors--

if anyone in ktown has a garret ATX let me know

I picked up a little sun baker a few weeks ago so will compare both...

the plot thickens...

I think u know a lot more than u let out Aussie jase..  

regards
oneday

UTBN wrote:G'day nightjar yep air tests are not accurate. But that nugget on the coin is not detectable with the 17 eliiptical or the 18 elliptical.
The 17 should pick it up very easily but in this instance it simply won't even with nugget being rubbed on coil.
Over the weekend I'll get a video up which will show it.
Anyone wanna place a wager with me who could get a signal via a 17 with it?
I'll bet 20 bucks a go

I will bet to bottles of rum because I no your coil was hung over from the night before
    
  
Cheers bluedog

Could this bit of gold then be a candidate for changes to the 'GB Type' digital menu setting on the 5000?

UTBN Jason, did you try to detect your quiet gold with the GB Type in 'Specific' or 'Off' to see if this is a GB issue you have while trying all other settings in the menu while GB was set in it's factory preset 'General'?

bye the way, my wife's $1000 GB2 is now for sale second hand for $6500.00
(picks up gold the 5000 can't!   )

Haha bluey I'd say you owe me two bottles mate.
Nah nuggiedreamer I haven't tried your suggestion but maybe ray could give that a go. I'm a bit outta time to do much as I'm bout to start my trip and need to sort a few things out.
As I have mentioned the particular nugget is detectable using a 14x9 but not the strongest signal that's for sure.
Anyway hopefully ray can do a few tests with it and provide more info. I'd recommend to use a .1 gram nugget which is far smaller then the quiet bit on a 17 to see the signal response you will get from that. The 17 gets .1's easily.
Maybe do as rarebreed suggests also later on and hit it with hammer and try to get signal then.
I'd say it's just an anomaly and we wouldn't miss too much of this type of gold. I hope ha!

When you get a mix of different kinds of metals you loose the response with PI detector.
If you have pure gold,and silver too it the response falls until you reach 50 50 then as more silver the response improves till the target is all silver.Remember nuggets are not pure,they different amounts of metal,silver nickel copper,especially in WA and this is the reason you detector has problem seeing them.
To prove my point how many lead bird shots have you found with the 4500 and 5000
it to amaze you,the reason is just one metal lead which a very low conductivity of 8 on a scale of 100,treating copper at a figure of 100,silver a bit higher 105,gold slips in at about 70%
This does not apply to VLF system,which works different.
So this will explain why those old 9kt chains do not fire up to well,full of several kinds of metals.

Hope this helps
Thedigger

Was a bit hungover today out there but just a final vid from me about it. Oneday can do a bit more on it if he likes.
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If you would heat the two nuggets too a dull red color then drop into water and then compare the colors,you will find that the quiet nugget will have duller color to the other which will be richer gold.

The Digger

well we got a new EUREKA GOLD out and plugged it in and charged the battery--set the frequency to 60khz and threw the test piece that Jase had that the gpx didnt detect and out in the car park we went and yep it picked it up a piece of cake with the original coil on the stick as supplied.

Next we tested a doug stone machine and it worked just as well as the gpx--zilch nothing --well that machine can go back to its owner for retirement..

now we r puting together a new Xterra 705 to see what reaction we get..

so if anyone in Ktown has a Garret ATX we would like to test it as well on this magical piece of gold..

if a dealer is pushing the virtues of one detector over another then u would want to b bloody certain u r getting what u want...

so in my humble opinion if all u want to do is look for small gold that is a problem for the GPX to pick up then take a Eureka gold with u and swing low to the ground..give it to the mrs and get her to lead from the front..

regards
oneday

G'day ray yeah it'd be interesting to see if the atx gets it! I'm betting it won't however. Did you try the gpx with a very small coil on it? I tried pro patch finder coil and got no response with that as well.

yep tried the 8x6 --nill stock.
will also try the 6" coiltek potato to see if there is life after NF..

regards
oneday