WA gold leases

Anyone out there hear of one company out there picking up all the vacant gold ground? The missus said she heard something on the ABC radio the other day but I can't find anything on the web about it and wonder if any of you guys have looked at the tendex and seen anything.
Thanks guys, Dion.

i havnt heard anything but i think it would be very very hard to snap up all the available ground. I know there have been people getting p*ssed about larger companys getting leases for ground they will never work basically land locking everything ....that may be what they were talking about but its not one person in particular its numerous companys sitting on large parcels of land in "processing" stages of there applications for lease....so these companies dont pay the $$$$ to have a mining lease but they still have the land locked down from anyone else using it...i believe if these companys want the lease then they should immediatly start paying mining lease fee's and not be able to stall the processing in order to not pay the mining lease fee's.
In reality though, i cant see any reason why a singular person(company) couldnt lease all available ground, no legal reason why they couldnt as long as they pay all the fee's...in the end though it wouldnt pay off to be paying a lease on ground you will never work and never prospect just to lock out someone else using it...or maybe it would?
my 2 cents, spend it as you wish

Just to clarify your point CARMS--while that ground is pending u r free to detect.
Furthermore anyone is free to peg ground and in the case of an E -u can submit it over the net--U can even get 1 of numerous companys in perth that do that sort of work--u need to keep an eye on tenegraph etc.
E leases come available every day of the week for all sorts of reasons--u r free to throw your hand in the ring and peg them.
P or SPL or M are a different kettle of fish--u have to physically peg the ground and I think that if the lease was surveyed u only have to place 1 peg in the ground on that surveyed point.

So young fella u may become the next land horder in WA--

regards
oneday

yes certainly pending ground is free to detect but i believe these people are holding up M leases so they are not paying the full fee's...they can hold these up for years and it blocks anyone else going on the land but then they arnt paying 10's of thousands for the mining lease....so on tengraph it says its a live mining lease but in actual fact its just trapped in a paper loop taking years to finally be processed and the company having to pay the full mining lease fee;s....i think im confusing myself now lol

carms wrote:yes certainly pending ground is free to detect but i believe these people are holding up M leases so they are not paying the full fee's...they can hold these up for years and it blocks anyone else going on the land but then they arnt paying 10's of thousands for the mining lease....so on tengraph it says its a live mining lease but in actual fact its just trapped in a paper loop taking years to finally be processed and the company having to pay the full mining lease fee;s....i think im confusing myself now lol

Wrong I'm afraid carms. As soon as any lease is granted and becomes "Live", the leaseholder must start paying annual rent to the WA Mines Dept and annual rates to the local shire council. If they want to start digging dirt they then have to pay for Aboriginal Heritage Surveys and these can cost thousands of dollars per ecah survey. Don't get confused with mining companies holding leases and not expending the required amount on the lease. That's an entirely different thing. However, our mate, Mr Twiggy Forrest of Fortescue Mining (FMG) fame has just got a blinder of trick going on his massive areas of Exploration Licences (EL). FMG applies for the EL and at the same time he has set up a legal company that then objects to the application for the EL!! The ground is then held up in the courts and also prevents anyone else from pegging it!! Tricky Twiggy eh!!

Cat
you are spot on there you can drive a 777 through that loophole and it aint hard to see all the big players are using it to bank prospective land at no cost. DMP call it "stop the clock" the whole process halts at no cost untill the company gets back to them with whatever the required document is. should be the other way round "you have x days to reply to us or your aplication is canceled and the land becomes vacant"

also a wee clause they slipped in we can only peg SPLs over ELs, PLs that have been granted for 12+ mounths.

ahh thats what i was thinking about....dont mind being corrected when im a goose lol

Flying kiwi wrote:Cat
you are spot on there you can drive a 777 through that loophole and it aint hard to see all the big players are using it to bank prospective land at no cost. DMP call it "stop the clock" the whole process halts at no cost untill the company gets back to them with whatever the required document is. should be the other way round "you have x days to reply to us or your aplication is canceled and the land becomes vacant"

also a wee clause they slipped in we can only peg SPLs over ELs, PLs that have been granted for 12+ mounths.

Kiwi,

I don't mind that clause as it lends more weight to my argument when pegging an SPL that "Warden, they've had the lease for a whole year and from what I can see they haven't done a thing with it". The company has to prove that my SPL will create "undue detriment" (NB - the word "undue", very important) and that is damned hard to do when one hasn't even set foot on the place.

Also, there is actually a clause in any "compliance correspondence" that says you have only "x" number of days to reply to this letter with the goods". If the documents aren't done in time you can lose the application. I've picked up good leases 'cos people don't understand their obligations under the Mining Act and they've lost the ground. It works both ways if you know how to work it. It's a very different matter if some objects to your application. That's when the time can stretch a long way out as it goes through courts and often as far The High Court of Australia. Generally, these days I don't find mining companies too bad but it's taken many years to establish a relationship and a good reputation. However, some are still a PIA and always will be.

Hey Cat
Im in the process of fighting through the paperwork myself for the first time any tips for getting your program of works over the line, im going down the line of POW-P with an application for extra tonneage.

cheers Tom

to get the extra tonnage I gather u have already exhausted the initial 5000 ton limit..thats a very big hole---do that first then u have a very good base as to why u need the xtra 5k
further more if u r negotiating with a company , then they usually do the paperwork for u..

regards
oneday

Ray
correct me if im wrong i may have been led up the garden path but i have been told prior to moving any dirt on my SPLs other than by hand you require a program of works, even then once aproved the limit is 500t unless you apply for extra tonnage?

cheers Tom

OK now a bit clearer--apart from the POW-P u need a rehab program, must be cleared from aboriginal heritage--check with the company that owns the lease to see whether heratige has been done otherwise this will be something else u have to get sorted prior to shifting any dirt..500t is still a lot of dirt and u will have to justify the xtra tonnage --if u get good results then not hard--u can also justify the xtras if u are 3m to good paydirt..etc
Tom once the caterpillar gets out of bed -about 9.00am--he is getting on a bit--he will fill in the spaces..I dont think he has lost the plot yet--but a wealth of info..

regards
oneday

I'm just out of bed. I haven't expelled any toxic gasses yet so it's a bit early. More in a minute after I've made her a cup of tea.

oohhh dear--a bitof decorum --please..

This has got a lot of good stuff in it but it's all getting a bit of a mix-up. I'll try to sort it out. Firstly, Kiwi, is this YOUR tenement or are you working on a "tribute" arrangement on somebody elses tenement? We'll assume it's YOUR tenement for now. OK, so the SPL has been granted ( I assume it's an SPL) and now you want to dig it up. We'll assume that for now.

Any Prospecting Licence, including SPLs, automatically gets an intial 500 (five hundred) tonnes to play with. However, even that amount of dirt shifting requires a POW-P to be applied for. So you need to complete the POW-P application form for that initial amount BUT at the same time you need to write a letter to the DMP Environmental Section (put it in the same envelope) requesting an increase in allowed tonnage. Now it can get a bit complicated with an SPL here. An SPL is only a small area of 10 Ha so it only has a "small footprint". Added to this is that any PL (inc an SPL) has a maximum top limit of 5000 (five thousand) tonnes. No argument, no exceptions - that's it. (This is all to do with Native Title and Expedited Procedure - more on that as required later). It takes about ten days to get a POW-P through these days, which is quick, and I find the DMP Enviro section very good to deal with. They are there to help you get the mining done, they're not there to try and prevnt you getting it done.

So if you ask for an additional 4500 tonnes (to make up the max of 5000 tonnes) they probably won't give you that much dirt because it's a big area on a small footprint. You'll probably only get 2500 tonnes total. Maybe, maybe not. The DMP look at vegetation, creek lines and tracks etc. They're very hot on anyone bulldozing creek lines so be careful what you say or put on any map. You'll need to find out by using the CALM (?) website if your tenement contains any "protected vegetation species". Most of the WA Goldfeilds doesn't except for some south of Kalgoorlie - AFAIK.

But ask for the maximum and that way you'll get the max that they will allow. Remember to ask for an ADDITIONAL amount not just AN AMOUNT. Otherwise you can lose your initial 500 tonnes in the new total. The POW-P lasts for 12 months but it can easily be extended "in the event of extenuating circumstances" - bad weather, breakdowns etc. It's easy to get an extension.

On the POW-P, the "rehab plan" is very simple as they actually ask you how you're gonna rehab it. Just tick the appropriate

yea mate 5 x 10ha SPLs of my own on top of an existing E.
not zoned in an enviromentaly significant area so that should be ok. will not mention going near the creeks, 2000t per SPL will be ok.
do you think i am better off doing one POW to cover all 5 SPLs or each one individually?
cheers Tom

The site stuffs me up every time someone adds a new comment whilst I'm typing a reply!!

,,,any way I'll continue.

,,,,,just tick the apprpriate boxes on the POW-P application form. Basically, it's just a case of ploughing it back in and scarifying (making furrows) it so that seeds and rain catch in it and the ground rehabs itself within a year or two.

Now, Aboriginal Heritage Surveys (AHS). There is a question on the POW-P about Aboriginal Heritage Site. A lot depends here on whether you received, signed and returned a "contract" from the Goldfeilds Land and Sea Council. If you did and you have, then you are under a legally binding contract to have an AHS done on your tenement before you even drive your dozer on to it. If you don't get one done and they see you disturbing the ground you are in more trouble than Flash Gordon in a Saturday morning cinema. They'll have you and your house! If you haven't signed such a contract then you are under no LEGAL obligation to get one done. BUT you are under an obligation not to destroy, move or interfere with any AHS that you may find whilst you're pushing. If you do happen to ride over something and it gets buried,,,,,,,,,,,,well what do you think you should do?

There is a Dept Of Indigenous Affairs website into which you can punch your tenement number and it will tell you if there are any AHS sites on it or if any AHS surveys have been carried out, when and by whom. Here 'tis, scroll down to the blue text near the top:

http://www.dia.wa.gov.au/en/Site-Search/Aboriginal-Heritage-Inquiry-System/

It's a very delicate subject is this AHS and it can be a minefeild so I'm not prepared to divulge any further on a website about "methods and ways" ,,,,,,,PM me if you need any further elaboration.

I'm off to Perth for the day so more later.

Flying kiwi wrote:yea mate 5 x 10ha SPLs of my own on top of an existing E.
not zoned in an enviromentaly significant area so that should be ok. will not mention going near the creeks, 2000t per SPL will be ok.
do you think i am better off doing one POW to cover all 5 SPLs or each one individually?
cheers Tom

Tom,

I've never been in such a situation as the one above. But I reckon, you'll need a seperate POW-P for each tenement. The DMP are very funny about such things as each tenement is a legal landholding lease in its own right and any detrimental acitvity will need to dealt with "per each tenement". Give the DMP Enviro section a call on +61 (08) 9222 3071 - i think that number is in Kalgoorlie but they'll put you on the right track.

BTW - I don't often see 5 SPLs on one EL so I'd take a guess yours are near Hawks Nest???

thanks for your help bud really apreciate it, a bit of advise from someone who has delt with the beuocracy can save alot of pain and barking up the wrong tree down the line, will flick you a pm re a few "tips" on the AHS when i get to that hurdle

cheers Tom

I think most have got the logistics of all the headaches and loops to jump through in order to do any mining. I'm not up to speed with whats needed on a SPL but I know for active mining leases.
I manage a quarry up here in Hedland and there always more paperwork to do for them in order to continue operations. Mining proposals,Extraction permits,Hertitage surveys & Enviromental , both operations and rehab of site, EPA, annual enviromental reports,Monthly AXTAT reporting ( thats the one were the DMP charge you for man hrs) if you plan using any sort of crushing equipment , then there,s CONTAMS reporting. This is an easy one if its only a couple people working the lease. Using explosives, dont even want to start on that headache. The list goes on, its amazing I even have time to get out and swing the detector sometimes.
Ive even heard of a local getting fined because he was using the wrong type of book as his mines record book.

Terry

Terry,

PL and SPLs are a lot less demanding than MLs which are mind-boggling to undertake and I try and steer away from having them. Ops on a PL or SPL used to be known as "Low Impact Mining Operations" (LIMOs for short) but that title was canned a few years back as small prospectors such as me weren't actually "mining" when doing "scrape and detect" work. Plus, there were connotations in the title, LIMO, that the aborigines didn't like.

SPLs and PLs operations are now done under "Programme Of Works - Prospecting". These are fairly easy to navigate once you've done a few. Same with pegging a lease really, easy as , once you've done a few. BUT - there are traps as you'd be aware.

Thanks for the clarification on the SPL and PL's. I was going to look into doing a SPL myself up this way, but thought why if I have to go through all the BS that one has to with a ML. Will check it out now. Do you know what the average approval time has been lately on leases once everything is done.

Terry,

For the actual application to be processed, once you've done all the compliance paperwork such as pastoralist Registered Post etc, etc, then you can expect a wait of 8 or 9 months before the tenement is granted. The DMP aim is to get 'em done in 60 days, but the Native Title process is the thing that pushes it out to 8 or 9 months. All this applies to any type of tenement. An ML can take much longer due to the Native Title process being far more detailed and demanding for an ML, whereas a PL goes through the less complex route of "Expedited Procedure" - as long as you sign the GLSC "contract". If you don't sign that, even a PL can take years as it's forced to take the same convoluted route to which an ML is subjected.

There can be a major hold-up with an SPL should the primary tenement holder object to your SPL application. This court process takes place concurrently with the NT process so not a lot of time is added when an obejction is being heard. I've been through this "objection" thing a few times and whilst it's a bit daunting at first, the warden is very understanding that we're not trained lawyers. Ya get better at it after a few.

Once the SPL or PL is actually granted, then before you can start "having fun with 15 tonnes of yellow metal" you need to put in a "Programme of Works - Prospecting" (POW-P) application. Currently, the DMP is processing these in a about ten days to a fortnight. BUT - if there's an Aboriginal Heritage Site on or near the area, it can take longer - but "how much longer" I wouldn't know. However, I will be finding out real soon with two of my SPLs!!

HTH,

C

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