Garrett ATX versus New ML coming out next year THREADS MERGED

[Bignuggs]

First topic message reminder :

This is bound to get some diehards talking but it grabbed my interest.  Now the ground in the vid clip is sandy but it's interesting to see how both machines compare.
Anyone know if this machine has been used on West Oz ground and how it compared with the 5000.

[aussie18]

yeah inhere, had a look at e-bay and shite loads on there for sale,. just these ones have been modded specifically for gold detecting and I've been well and truly warned off modding detectors with certain blokes that do it.
I personally wouldn't buy one just putting it out there on info about them.
when the ad also says ..... many top level pro's would prefer this.... sort off makes ya wonder!! hahaha
martin $4700 with a 2 year warranty seems a fair price for the 5000. only $700 more expensive then the ATX. I assume that's with the 11" mono and DD coils, harness,bag etc the complete hire kit. hmmm might be me chrissy present to myself, really put myself in the shite here but I would much prefer to give me hard earned to jeff at reeds though.
jase

[martinjsto]

yes I thought they were good value too Jase, just too close to chrissy for me to part with the cash, I WOULD double check the warranty details b4 committing. hopefully there will be a few available still early next year when Im ready or better still due to the competition the price of a new 5000 come down dramatically during the year, then it will a a tough decision.

[Guest]

It seems strange to me that people are comparing the new garret with what minelab might produce in the future.

U can only compare apples with apples and if u have a 45 or 5k then I am not sure of the rationale with the Garret ATX
Holden have never produced a slower v8 at the top end of the market and I can safetly say Minelab have never done the same..The 5k is still up there with the best of them in fact they r still market leaders.

If u have yah detector set up right then it takes all of 5 seconds to push in the shaft for the ease of transportation. If u have the button on the shaft upside down then I suggest u pull it all apart and set it up for ease of operation--button on the shaft ontop.

regards
oneday

[Guest]

Hi All,

SAID THE MINELAB DEALER!!!!

Ron

[martinjsto]

gees Ron, do you know for sure that oneday is a minelab dealer? please explain else this is just a personal dig, again at a fellow member. please refrain from this type of posts in the future.


this post is suppose to be about comparing the ATX to the 5k, not the " new this or that" to be released whenever, I am sure Garrett also has another unit in the plans or on the drawing board to, in their opinion, outdo the next "market leader" release as all competing companies do. I agree with comparing apples to apples with machines on the market now.   as for minelab being the market leaders, that may be true as of today but without actually trying out the new ATX how can anyone say or advise anyone else that with 100% certainty for tomorrow. the advice being given is to stick with what is known as the best machine today based on experience, but with no first hand experience with the alternative machines that is a bold statement to make and doesn't in itself make the 5k a better machine, the Minelab GPX5000 is apparently easy to use and setup and adjust to suit different gold or condition but my experience and from what I read here from others doesn't support this, more to the point it is a difficult machine to use, know and correctly tune taking years to master if you ever do. i know of at least one person who would prefer to use their old machine over a 5k for just this reason, anyone else think so?
time will tell in the end and my advice it to hire your first machine and see for yourself..
Martin

[Guest]

Gees Martin ,

Keep your knickers on mate!!!,where have you been, if you look into some of Rays photo's it shows us the new signposts he's erected and the fact that he is peddling his shoo fly ointment it's fairly obvious that he owns a M/L shop AND the fact that he just came back from a M/L get together, I dunno where have you been!!!!

I have been involved with forum's for a while now and you would be surprised as to the biased comments made by M/L dealers and I don't blame them it's their livelihood but I would like to see them at least to indicate that they are who they are and we can make fairer judgements on what is said on most forums

I find it strange that most negative comments come from M/L personnel,now that's my view and I'm entitled to it,AND yes it was a personal dig as I thought it was justified AND Ray is entitled to have his say

Ron

[Guest]

U CAN DIG AS MUCH AS U WANT at the end of the day people buy what they want--no big deal and yes I am a Minelab dealer and if that offends anyone --bad luck.

as we have said in the past dont let personal arguments blind u thats what the PM's are there for.

regards
oneday

[martinjsto]

yep I have never said I wasnt a newi or what you can or cannot say via PM, but irrelevant of what I know or dont know about who is who or what, i can tell a personal baiting comment from a taking the piss comment and there is PM messaging for the personal stuff and my job is to keep everyone with similar attitudes from posting this crap on open forums. like it or not I dont give a... unless told otherwise by management.  there are plenty of forums out there that love shite stirrers. most here would rather have polite informative chats, for the ones that bite please do it via PM. you seem to know more on who is who here so you should be able to take the advice for what it is, from a dealers point of view.
everyone else as stated many times should do their own research and not rely on any one opinion. there are plenty of non dealers posting good advice here too.

[Bignuggs]

c'mon guys.  calm down and slow down.  I started this thread and now I can't keep up   
so where are we up too ?  Ray is a minelab dealer and that is a fact.  good on him.
at a guess I'd say 100% of us have or only use minelab detectors.
Garrett have their ATX squarely aimed at the ozzie market and hoping to take sales from ML.
ML are coming up with a new detector in 2014 or earlier, I think I saw maybe 9 december 2013 which is next Monday.
Hmmmm as the old saying goes "we live in interesting times"    

 
Cliff

PS.  I'm thinking of starting a gardening section.  I'm gunna rip out my lawn and plant weeds coz I'm good at growing weeds  

[Guest]

Hi All,

Heads bangin from the flu, I tried

Ron

[Jack-Tar]

gees Ron, do you know for sure that oneday is a minelab dealer? please explain else this is just a personal dig, again at a fellow member. please refrain from this type of posts in the future.


this post is suppose to be about comparing the ATX to the 5k, not the " new this or that" to be released whenever, I am sure Garrett also has another unit in the plans or on the drawing board to, in their opinion, outdo the next "market leader" release as all competing companies do. I agree with comparing apples to apples with machines on the market now.   as for minelab being the market leaders, that may be true as of today but without actually trying out the new ATX how can anyone say or advise anyone else that with 100% certainty for tomorrow. the advice being given is to stick with what is known as the best machine today based on experience, but with no first hand experience with the alternative machines that is a bold statement to make and doesn't in itself make the 5k a better machine, the Minelab GPX5000 is apparently easy to use and setup and adjust to suit different gold or condition but my experience and from what I read here from others doesn't support this, more to the point it is a difficult machine to use, know and correctly tune taking years to master if you ever do. i know of at least one person who would prefer to use their old machine over a 5k for just this reason, anyone else think so?
time will tell in the end and my advice it to hire your first machine and see for yourself..
Martin

I have found the 5000 particularly easy to use. I have only just finished my first season and allthough I didn't hit the retirement nugget I did find around 4.5 ounces. It was a steep learning curve and I did have the advantage of staying out here for months. I am not claiming to know everything there is to know but the machine is in my limited experience easy to use. I did take a lot of advice from others and tried everything they suggested, I drew my own conclusions and set up what I thought was best. Maybe the advantage was that I didn't have a clue and started using the 5k with a blank slate.
For me, I believe that Garrett have dumbed the 5k down (only using a DD) just to compare it with the ATX. I have found a few pieces smaller that .1g with the 5k. If YOU are tuned into your machine you will pick up on any slight hick up in the tone.

Just my opinion
Craig

[araratgold]

I agree with Craig. I find the 5000 particularly easy to use, although I have had the advantage of operating all the GP and GPX series prior to the 5000.
Once you have the basic settings set up, you rarely change them. The only things I sometimes change are the gain ( up or down ) and timings ( enhance, special fine, special extra, special smooth ) depending on the ground noise. Other than those, it is basically set and forget.
Can't get much simpler than that !  

I am waiting for further real world testing in some hot ground in Vic or WA before I leap into an ATX.
I have found at least 50 ounces of specimens in the NT, Vic and WA with Minelabs so it's clear that they don't miss much.
See my photobucket link below for photos of some of the specimens I have found. Scroll back through the pages and you will see many types of specimens and nuggets.
 
https://s840.photobucket.com/user/AraratGold/library/?sort=3&page=10

The areas where this particular fine gold, that is seemingly difficult for the Minelabs to detect, is limited.
The weight of the ATX and the hellish price of its coils is going to be a downer for me !  
And if it can't at least match the 5000 for depth on " normal " nuggets, then I won't be getting one, no matter how cheap the basic unit is !  

Cheers,
Rick

[martinjsto]

cheers guys some good info there. I have hired a 5000 twice and borrowed one for 20 days total and used a 4500 for 12 days, i liked the 5k took a while to finally find gold but with the help of some good people found some nice species and a few little nuggets as shown on prior posts. smallest is 0.07g best we could measure. I felt I have grasped the settings quite well      find out I have still a lot to learn.
cheers.
PS I am going to the Garret ATX tech day on Sunday, let you know what they say maybe see some of you there. taking some small gold and some noisy WA dirt test bed full of hotrocks i have collected. give it a run hopefully.

lovely bits of gold and species there Ararat, no doupt the GPX find the gold.

[Panther]

Ground is soooo different everywhere. I spent time in WA, Vic and Qld and also NZ detecting and had to relearn my machines in each state. I have to say NZ is a cinch as far as mineralization goes compared to Oz. Good gold there too. So anyone travelling to a different state will find they have to learn different settings but it is a great experience and your machine definitely becomes a part of you.

[martinjsto]

hi all,

went to Garret ATX day, hi to all who went and I didnt see, good info on the ATX and from what we saw it does seem to be all that is said, I even took my own test bed, a plastic container full of mineralized soil and hot rocks and got it to detect a 0.07g at aprox 6 inches and a gram nugget at about 15 inches placed under the container. will definitely hire one first then decide on a purchase or not later in the year. had a fellow showing the 5k not detecting species with fine gold where they were found with the ATX, met a fellow there and he investigated the setup of the 5k and reckoned it was dumed down a bit and should of got some of the species with better settings. one thing it is a heavy machine and the bungee design needs work to use it all day,

cheers
martin

[araratgold]

hi all,

went to Garret ATX day, hi to all who went and I didnt see, good info on the ATX and from what we saw it does seem to be all that is said, I even took my own test bed, a plastic container full of mineralized soil and hot rocks and got it to detect a 0.07g at aprox 6 inches and a gram nugget at about 15 inches placed under the container. will definitely hire one first then decide on a purchase or not later in the year. had a fellow showing the 5k not detecting species with fine gold where they were found with the ATX, met a fellow there and he investigated the setup of the 5k and reckoned it was dumed down a bit and should of got some of the species with better settings. one thing it is a heavy machine and the bungee design needs work to use it all day,

cheers
martin

Gidday Martin,
I always wonder about the settings these people are using when they are up against the 5000. It's easy to dumb the 5000 down to not get certain nuggets / specimens ! You can absolutely crucify the performance if you are not capable with the machine !

Cheers,
Rick

[martinjsto]

well I decided,have joined the light side (or is it the dark side)   and purchased a 5k ex hire unit. I do still like the ATX and think it is going to be a great companion to the 5k and I will hire one on a few trips and see how it goes b4 committing (and find some gold with the 5K hehe).

thanks Jamie and all the guys at PP and the Garret boys Adrian and his buddies for the tech day yesterday a great friendly day out. the ATX certainly finds small gold and in todays goldfield and with the hobbyist this is what a lot will realize they are seeking. better than the 5K? well that is yet to be proven but I am sure it will be thoroughly tested over the next few years and time will tell. either way there is a new machine on the block at a reasonable price so its good for competition and that helps with pricing.

ok a report from someone with lots of knowledge and exp with a 5k, we looked at the 5K immediately after the demo on the fine gold species.

about the settings on how the 5 was used on the gold yesterday.
Firstly though, the gold species yesterday were fine gold with small bits in it too. When you use a detector such as the five two things determine how it's run. That's the ground your operating in so correct soil timings are important, but also when you do find gold, then once again soil timings can also determine in how you operate. For instance if your on deep large gold you wouldn't use fine gold as a soil timing. Another scenario is if your on gold that is shallow and small you wouldn't run soil timings in enhance as your missing out on tiny gold or faint signals. Your audio also is a big issue too. That needs to be correct.
That 5 was set up badly yesterday. It had no chance on fine or small gold.
He had it set for only very obvious targets. He had soil timings set in custom (high trash) his audio was in quiet. Both of these being selected, the 5 had no chance on that gold. There were a few other things wrong but they were minor, however the two big ones I mentioned turned that 5 into a dumbass.

I just know the 5 was set up to limited capabilities. Jamie was unaware of the settings as that other fella set it up. He also had the stabiliser at 3 and gain on 20. He used a 11 in round mono. Mate you heard how quiet that detector was and with gain at max it should have warbled badly with that mono on in high emi area. But it didn't it was quiet. The reason? It was desensitised. If your in gold ground with small or fine gold about and run your detector like that only obvious targets will produce signal. Hence you would use fine gold soil timing, audio in normal, (quiet is for extreme mineralisation) and high trash soil timings is totally wrong.
Also I have a bit of gold here I detected with 5 that has very fine gold in it which I retrieved several inches deep. That's the correct soil timing, audio,gain,stabiliser at work. I'll send a pic thru:
pic bellow.



now its up to you all to do the research b4 committing, I am not saying buy this or that, personally I am going to hire one and see.
hope this helps some of you.
martin

edit, one thing I guess is that as said above if the 5k was dumed down maybe it had to be due to the stabilizer wobble in this high EMI area but this shows the diff between the two, the ATX was quiet in this area and still picked up the species where the 5k didnt, now it could of been setup differently and detected the species but would of been highly unstable and noisy to do so. hmmm the ATX wins that one if you are detecting under a airport I guess but shows it capabilities in high emi areas.  

[Guest]

Hi Martin,

To test a M/L machine in a suburban area is a no-no, to do this properly it would have to be in cancel or as the tester did and that's to dum it down considerably but it does prove the opposite for the ATX as it performed well

I think until someone who knows what they are friggin doin gets out there and tests them side by side at there best it will be a waste of time for all of us to comment further

Ron

PS:a 1gr nugg at 15" that's got to good

[Inhere]

G'day Martin, If you do hire an ATX out, try that specie in hot ground, that will tell us where it's at

[martinjsto]

will do, planning a trip early next year when ATX is available and it is cooled off a bit. taking vids so should be a fair comparison. i am not doing the testing as I dont have the knowledge but the person who will be is well experienced.
the thing is the ATX did work and was quiet yesterday in all this EMI, will it help in the goldfields?. TBA
PS I now own a GPX5000, yeeehaaaa bring on the cooler weather.

[Inhere]

will do, planning a trip early next year when ATX is available and it is cooled off a bit. taking vids so should be a fair comparison. i am not doing the testing as I dont have the knowledge but the person who will be is well experienced.
the thing is the ATX did work and was quiet yesterday in all this EMI, will it help in the goldfields?. TBA

What we need to know is how it goes when the ground gets hot and variable.
One of the guy's on 4umer (TheGolden1)tried it a Talbot, where it is hot and variable and it didn't do
that well, gain had to drop to 6 and it missed 2 small nuggets and some bullets that the guy got moving
back to his 5000. I think you done well getting a 5000 for that money. 

While the ground is hot at Talbot, there's ground around down there that is much hotter.

[NuggieDreamer]

Well, here's my thoughts... I was there too, trying to win a free detector and watched CAT give his spiel and watched the 5K take on the ATX.

At one stage they had to retune thre ATX so it didn't cancel one of the speci it was testing out.
The ATX was using its chunky DD coil in the test, so the EMI would be less of an issue.
Was the thing beeping coz of a bit fly crap gold or coz it was on a hotrock.
How well it penetrates mineralized ground for its coil size would have been great to see.

Pros.
1. 3m Waterproof
2. Cheap - compared to the 5K
3. Sets up easy - only needs thumb push button control
4. Military Spec case - looks as if it should be locked up in a gun case (Redneck Appeal)
5. Telescopic stow away - Robust/Space saving
6. Garret Pinpointer doesnt interfere with this Detector
7. Detects a 22 Bullet round at 18"(...and fly poo gold iron stone speci's on grass at Guildford)

Cons.
1. Looks Heavy
2. Only comes with 1 coil in its standard kit.
Has only 3 Coil options 8" Mono, 14" DD, 20" Mono, no skid plates (after market plate available)
3. No Lithium Ion battery or 12Vdc charger
4. Support bungee Sling not that comfortable
5. Only a LED readout to work out whats going on
6. Internal Speaker (Ya gunna hear these things singing eveywhere now!)
7. Wont be upgradable for the foreseeable future.
8. Less timings and menu options than the 5K

My Conclusion
Surface tests on grass are one thing...
If the 5K was as user friendly, it would kick the ATX's ar*e.

ND

[Bignuggs]

This has really stirred up a hornets nest.
GPX5000 vs the Garret ATX. Only true tests in the WA goldfields will tell coz that's all I'm interested in.
After seeing all the vid clips, pretend bed tests, it just don't cut it for me now but they have been interesting. Both machines have to find the same target in natural ground to see how they read it.
No good digging it up, then filming and saying " Look what I found".
Until I see both machines on video hit the same target before it is dug up, operated by good detectorists, I'll reserve my personal decision.
As I've stated before, the ATX is aimed at the aussie market to try get some sales off ML but somehow I don't think it will happen.

[martinjsto]

hi ND, shame we didnt catch up, you probably saw me there as I was the one putting the fly speck under my container of hot rocks being the center of attention lol..
I agree with you with the comparison and conclusion until proven otherwise and like cliff and others said time for the vids of our WA undisturbed soil tests, coming soon to youtube....

[martinjsto]

I just want to add that Jamie and The boys at prospectors patch were not responsible for the set up of the 5k for the specie test, it was set up by either the operator or Cat doing the display, maybe cat you could clarify this for us? if not set by PP or either of you then who, or was it just turned on and use the last settings?, either way it should of screamed due to EMI if the 5k was setup to find those species in the goldfields conditions correctly and it would be very unstable. gotta hand it to the ATX in this situation or in high EMI areas.

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