More info on the wild dog problem. MERGED WITH DOGS IN THE GOLDFIELDS

Is It a good idea to take city dogs out to the goldfields, just wondering what other members do.
Cheers
Steve

Dirtfisher wrote:Is It a good idea to take city dogs out to the goldfields cheers Steve

This is my opinion but the answer to your question is, NO.
Think about it, muzzles so hopefully they can't get at 1080 baits, station owners who don't like dogs on their leases, dogs allowed to roam free, wild dog problem in WA now and no Vets in goldfield towns.
There is lot's more that can be added to the list, take your dog with you and you take your chances.
In the end, it's up to you.

i dunno cliff, i know there are dangers same as down south where they regularly drop aerial baits only meters from my farm and farmers and shooters with similar attitude towards wild dogs. But take a look down any street in metro area, dogs and cats roaming most parks or roads, chances are your dog will get stolen from your back yard, or poisoned by some disgruntled neighbor or run over by a car, you take your chances with owning any pet, i could loose my chooks or fish to neighbors cats at anytime we do our best to keep them safe but we have to be realistic, it wont stop me enjoying owning them. most people love their pets enough to not let them wander the bush and a muzzle isnt so bad. station owners dont like anything or anyone on their lease so whats new there, gees i know dogs that are cleaner and more sociable and smarter than a lot of humans and they dont leave behind empty tins. each to there own with this one i guess but if you understand the dangers and protect the mutt as much as possible and accept any loss knowing you did your best" then i dont see the issue. i have lost dogs to snakebite but the dog saved my young daughter from getting bitten it was heartbreaking but the dog did its job, i know i would want my old girl next to me if i came across a pack of wild dogs or a bush bull in the bush or if i was out detecting km away and my wife was in camp and two starving mongrels came out of the bush towards her.

to paint every land holder with this comment--" station owners dont like anything or anyone on their lease so whats new there--is totally unfounded--sure there are a few pastoralist that are p*ssed of and rightly so..obviously u have never been confronted by wild dogs --my advice to everyone is to not get complacent with them--they will have a go at u and sure as the sun rises the 1080 baits do work a treat so muzzle up-
Further more I don't see why when a property owner gives u permission to detect and ask that there be no dogs that this rule is always broken..
there are a few posts on here about 1080 and the consequences

maybe u should get a shot gun to b sure..

regards
oneday

I have a legal firearm, but with a wild dog attack, like a wild boar unless you are hunting them you dont always get the chance to load it intime, a dog gives you those seconds and will save your life. and your correct oneday, to paint everyone with the same brush is not fair and i retract that statement.

I am from a country background oneday only inexperienced in swinging a detector. I have been confronted and in some rare instances had to kill wild dogs, wild pigs, wild goats and donkeys, mad kangaroos (blind), crazy 1300 kg bulls and unpredictable steers and diving magpies. also attacked by tiger snakes, bull ants and feral cats. you never turn your back on any of them, my experience in surviving in the bush, not in detecting, has taught me that a dog is as necessary as a gps or epirb. sure you may have to shoot it because it ate a bit of bait, no vet to euthanase it for you out there. and if left to roam, expect a bullet from a cocky or for it to fall down a shaft, you have to look after your mate as you would a friend or a kid but when your in the middle of nowhere it should be your call i think. just my opinion.

This subject always seems to cause a storm and that is understandable. People value their dogs but I can't understand why some people are prepared to lose them.
Maybe if you need a dog or dogs to take into the goldfields with you, maybe a pair of pitbulls would be better suited for the job as I sure as hell wouldn't care about them if the shite hit the fan out there.
And I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a pitbull.
Just my opinion.

Thanks for the input everyone, perhaps I better leave my furry friend at home, my missus would never forgive me if I came back without one of her children.
Though after reading your post Martin maybe a firearm is the way to go. Is a licence hard to obtain as a prospector?

To get a firearm license, you will need to jump thru hoops. You will either need a letter of permission to shoot on someones property or be a member of a registered shooting club like the sporting shooters association. Even then ya got no guarantee you will get a license.
You will need to demonstrate to the licensing branch a genuine need for the firearm.
I wouldn't tell them you go prospecting and that's why you need it. It wouldn't be a good enuff excuse.
I'm currently trying to add a firearm to my existing license and I have to jump thru hoops to prove I need it.
Best of luck to ya.

a firearm licence is difficult to get and to hold on to. I guess it shouldn't be easy and you should have a genuine reason to hold one. you have to jump through hoops alright. i am lucky to hold enough acreage and was able to get a licence for vermin eradication. protection from animals whilst prospecting wont cut it. so that eliminates a firearm for most prospectors for protection. I have seen what 2 dogs can do to a strong fit man, he was in real trouble, had him down in seconds, three dogs and kiss your A**s goodbuy.

I agree with most comments, but there is no reason, other than pastoral land, why you shouldn't take your dog, as long as the dog is muzzled and where there are double gees, some leather booties ha ha
They are great to have with you on your own in the bush, nothing or no one can get near the camp without them warning you
Having said that, a warning from your mate may not be good enough in certain situations, I have tried to get a gun licence, not because I want to shoot anything, but just for protection, if necessary, but no joy.
Anyway, take your mate, but be sensible, look after him

Couple of articles from the West Australian paper for those who take their dogs on ya bush trips.



Push for wild dog barrier
Brad Thompson, The West Australian
September 24, 2013, 4:47 am

Shire councils and pastoralists in the southern rangelands are banding together to support a radical plan to trap wild dogs in a net covering almost 90,000sqkm.

The plan involves a fence 1400km long to enclose 51 pastoral properties under attack from wild dogs, which have already caused devastation and widespread de-stocking.

More than 900km of the fence is already in place.

The Shire of Mount Magnet on behalf of the shires of Sandstone, Yalgoo and Cue has lodged an application to the Country Local Government Fund for about $1 million to erect another 100km and applied for funding from the Mid West Development Commission to build an additional 380km.

The fencing projects would create the Murchison Region Vermin Cell, joining the No. 2 Vermin Fence with the State Barrier Fence to enclose an area where wild dogs could be eradicated.

Mount Magnet shire president Ashley Dowden said the cell was vital to the future of pastoralists in the region.

Mr Dowden, of Chella Station, where pastoralists turned out this month to help with an intensive baiting program, said wild dogs numbers had exploded.

A survey of pastoralists in the region showed sheep numbers were falling at a rate of 14.5 per cent a year as a direct result of the impact of wild dogs.

It was estimated that if no action was taken to back up pastoralists in their fight to protect stock, fewer than 50,000 would remain on the 51 pastoral leases by 2018 - just 10 per cent of the current capacity of 450,000.

Mr Dowden said based on the forecasts few leases would be viable.

The cost of completing the cell is estimated at $5.8 million.

Rampaging dogs in bounty trial crosshairs
BRAD THOMPSON, The West Australian
September 25, 2013, 4:24 am

Agriculture Minister Ken Baston has defended a controversial move to introduce a wild dog bounty trial, saying it was justified on economic, animal welfare and public safety grounds.

Mr Baston revealed he overturned initial advice from his own department on the merits of a bounty system, which he believed could provide another weapon for pastoralists already engaged in major baiting and trapping campaigns.

The trial covers about 90,000sqkm and more than 50 stations in the Murchison where dog attacks on sheep and goats have caused widespread horrific injuries and big financial losses.

Under the $75,000, 12-month trial, pastoralists will be able to claim $100 per wild dog scalp, subject to strict conditions.

"Whether the dog is trapped, the dog is poisoned, caught with a lasso or shot, there is that $100 bounty there as a reward," Mr Baston said. "There won't be cowboys running around the bush firing weapons. Only pastoralists will be allowed to claim bounty payments, but they can provide permission to external shooters to kill wild dogs on their properties and pay them privately."

The stations covered by the trial are part of the proposed Murchison Region Vermin Cell. The cell would be enclosed by a 1400km fence as part of a long-term plan to eradicate wild dogs.

Challa Station owner and Mt Magnet Shire president Ashley Dowden said the pastoralists needed "every tool in the shed" in the fight against wild dogs, including bounties.

Mr Dowden, who chairman of the Meekatharra Rangelands Biosecurity Association which will run the trial under contract with the Department of Agriculture and Food WA, warned that wild dogs were moving south at an alarming rate and could be in the Perth Hills within five years if more was not done to halt their advance.

They were also growing bolder, with reports of cross-breed dogs approaching homesteads and stalking people in remote areas.

"It could be only a matter of time before someone gets pulled down, whether it is a tourist or prospector," Mr Dowden said.

The Pastoral Lands Board reported 42,258 stock, mostly sheep, were lost to wild dogs in the Rangelands last year. The cost of dog attacks was estimated at $6.3 million last year. Mr Baston said that if stations became unviable the State Government faced major land management costs.

Seven former pastoral leases in the trial zone are already controlled by the Department of Parks and Wildlife.

"The reality is there aren't the numbers of people out here that there used to be. Everyone has had to tighten their belts," he said.

"They are basically husband and wife operations playing a major role for Government in being guardians of the Rangelands."

It manages 60 former pastoral leases or parts of former leases covering more than six million hectares.

The management bill for 2012-13 was $2.86 million.

thanks cliff,
they are a real problem and it is a mater of time b4 someone gets attacked and you understand my personal concerns with that Cliff.
I dont agree with the baiting as it gets into the food chain and indiscriminately kills other species not intended, as well as your mate. I know it is difficult but the fence is a long overdue idea coupled together with well payed pro shooters. we dont want cowboys running around shooting shotgun pellets everywhere but one shot kills with ballistic rounds is good. but at $100 per scalp then I dont think it would be viable on a pro basis, I dont want to take my pooch out with us but she will be the best and first line of defense against an attack giving you a few seconds to load the rifle and possibly save your life. its a hard one eh.

Hi Cliff,

65 mile creek just north of Cue has wild dogs howling every night with roo carcases everywhere,Quinns has the mongrals as well and it can put a chill down your spine when they enclose your camp as night falls

I'm all for culling them as our pets and us would sleep a lot better at nights, matter of fact if they did put a bounty of $100 on each one I would be there in a flash

All the more reason to contact pastralists before entering their properties

Ron

We do detect on pastoral leases and it's not only the Magnet area with a dog problem. Best solution for me is to get permission from the pastoral lease holder to shoot and even better if they supply the official letter.
They can only say yes or no.

Are they calling pure bred dingoes wild dogs as well i see a few around Paynes Yalgoo and though sometimes a bit cheeky when you are not close to camp they will have a sniff around looking for snacks but they normally are very timid -be a shame to wipe these guys out with the other mongrels-dragon

I must admit that I've been starting to feel increasingly uneasy about being alone with regard to wild dogs. Not concerned about dingos - its the crosses that worry me.

I don't have a rifle and carrying one detecting would not really be feasible anyway. A hand gun would be best but way too much drama all round. I haven't personally been hassled by dogs, and thinking rationally the risk must still be quite low - but clearly there are more and more and some big paw prints out there.

I have seriously considered carrying some pepper spray and nearly got some before my last trip. I think I'll get some before next season. It's light and convenient - figure it can't hurt and should be better than just my pick.

Cheers
Stingray

good idea about the pepper spray, it would be quite effective at close range and you could keep it on ya.

My writings from another forum (one where I often vent my political spleen),,,,,,,,,never on here, hopefully. 

I've been asking for this for about the last 7 years. I've seen the dog problem getting worse each season for about the last 15 years. It's only a matter of time before the dogs have a go at humans. I carry a rifle out there but I'm not mad about shooting anything. I've only ever used it to drop a roo for meat for my mates in the bush or euthanising trapped animals - usually in fences etc. But it's getting to the stage where something's gotta be done. Indeed, I believe it's gone well past that stage.

A couple of issues stand out here. Firstly, I'm sure the station owners would like the 100 bucks themselves, that's obvious. They don't make a lot of money out there these days. Next is the station owners need to have some control over who's shooting out there. Bullets can travel a long, long way before they lose "injury velocity", hence there's a safety issue. Next again, is it's harder than you'd think to kill a dog with a weapon. First, the rifles that we can have here in WA without special permits are relatively low velocity with the consequent reduced "killing power". The WA Govt may insist that each kill be done humanely - one shot, head shot, one dead dog. No woundings and chasing the animal to kill it. I've been there with kangoos and it's not easy seeing the thing hobbling for hours until ya catch up with it. I've hit a roo in the chest with a 22 Hornet, which is a pretty quick muzzle velocity, at 150 mtrs and the roo ran away bleeding to death! We chased it for about an hour and finished it off. Oddly enough that was along the Sandstone to Mount Magnet road. so it was probably on the same Challa Station as this trial!

There's also "the lunatic fringe" that will shoot anything that moves on the pretext of shooting wild dogs.

On 1080 bait. Surprisingly, 1080 is very selective and kills very few animals other than dogs which are carnivores at the the top of the food chain. The poison, Sodium Monoflouroacetate is present in some native plants so our "Aussie Animals" aren't affected by it in small doses and they don't eat the meat baits in any case. Dogs are the most susceptible, next are pigs. Rabbits are also but they don't eat meat either so 1080 is the go for dogs. It's bloody awful way to die I can tell ya! I'd shoot my little mate before I'd watch him die like that.

Cat

Hi Stingray, I like your idea of the pepper spray. Could you tell me where I might buy some?

Regards Roger  

purple-dragon wrote:Are they calling pure bred dingoes  wild dogs as well i see a few around Paynes Yalgoo and though sometimes a bit cheeky when you are not close to camp they will have a sniff around looking for snacks but they normally are very timid -be a shame to wipe these guys out with the other mongrels-dragon

Dragon,

That's how I feel as well. A dingo is a beautifull animal to witness. But the idiots that let their own dogs run around out there are the cause of some of the problems. Pastoralists have heard all the excuses - "Oh my Rex wouldn't chase cows, my Prince wouldn't run off and join a dog pack, my Fido is too well fed to take a bait" and so on. I've heard it too from them and dog owners. Trust me, those excuses are all bulschitt. The dogs bugger off and then, if they survive a challenge from the pack, they breed. Aboriginal dogs from townships are notorious for being allowed to run free, no collar, no training and off they trot to a dog pack never to be seen again.

Dogs will take a bait, it's roo meat, and dogs love the strong taste of it. That's why it's a good bait, they can't resist it. Next, dogs have more loyalty to pack than they SEEM to have to you as the owner. Given a chance meeting at a time when they are out of earhsot of your voice, most of 'em won't come back from a pack once they get a scent of one. That's simple dog behaviour. Next, dogs will chase anything with which they are not familiar and most city dogs don't know what a cow or sheep is. So they chase it, get excited, then the basic instincts break through - attack it and eat it.

Talk to the "doggers" out there and it's illuminating how well they know dogs. It's simple, dogs are now too much of a problem and one which doesn't allow for differentiation. They have to go.

Cat

It seems to be a bigger problem than we have always been led to believe. I won't go into the politics of it all (greenies) but the next time out for me, I'll be also slinging my rifle and put up with the extra weight to carry.
No more headphones, external speakers from now on.

i think it would be a good idea that anyone out prospecting that inevitably was put in a position to have to shoot or kill a wild dog should drop the ears and scalp off to the pastoral lease holders, they would appreciate the news and the dollars for the ears. good way to get on good terms and help with an problem.

Hi Roger, I haven't started looking where to buy pepper spray, but it seems to be readily available online. I see you are in Qld and it seems different laws apply in different states. From the quick look it, in WA it seems that you have to have a 'lawful reason' to have or use some (see text in italics below which I found on another website - can't vouch for the accuracy). Given the issue we are discussing and the quotes in the media Cliff posted, there is evidence of a good reason in my book. If anyone knows where to buy some in Perth I'd appreciate knowing. My other half is going to India soon and she would like to take some there as well for protection (from other types of dogs).

Cheers
Stingray

Please Post Anon

Just few weeks ago i wrote an email to police.wa.gov.au to verify that wikipedia stated pepper spray is legal to carry in WA. Below is what they replied in email, please share.

The Wikipedia information that you quote in your email is not entirely correct as they have failed to mention or describe the circumstances required to have lawful possession of pepper spray.

Pepper Spray (oleoresin capsicum) is a controlled weapon as per the Weapons Act 1999.

A person must have a lawful excuse to possess a controlled weapon, and subsection 7(3) of the Weapons Act 1999 provides that a lawful excuse to carry a controlled weapon is not limited to the excuse that the weapon is carried or possessed for defence.

There is a special provision at sub-regulation 7(2) the Weapons Regulations 1999 that allows a person to carry or possess pepper spray for the purpose of lawful self defence in circumstances that the person has reasonable grounds to apprehend may arise. In other words, the person must have grounds to believe someone is likely to attack them and that there is a current and real threat to them. For example, a person going into Northbridge on a Friday evening might believe from media reports of numerous violent incidents taking place in Northbridge that he/she should carry a pepper spray for protection. This would most likely not be sufficient grounds to satisfy sub-regulation 7(2) of the Weapons Regulations 1999.

The reasonableness of the grounds for the person to carry pepper spray is likely to be tested in a court should any incident result in a prosecution. This is what happened in the decision of Hall v Collins [2003] WASCA 74, where on appeal the Judge found the appellant had sufficient grounds to satisfy regulation 7(2) of the Weapons Regulations 1999 and as such entered a judgement of acquittal in the appellant’s favour.

If you want a more definitive legal opinion you should seek that from a legal practitioner.

Pays to do your research on this. In WA recently we have had someone already charged with importing an illegal hand gun hidden inside a computer hard disc from overseas.
Make sure it is legal in WA. Always protect yourself.