Excellent study material for the summer

I bought copies of these publications below and found them highly informative. They're not the usual "x marks the spot" things, but more the geological and technical side of "Looking for Gold".

I am not connected to the guy that wrote them but I am acquainted with him. He's a PhD in Geological Sciences, now retired after having spent many years as a lecturer at the Curtin University School of Mines in Kalgoorlie. They're well worth the money, especially for the less experienced amongst us but the "long timers" could learn something also. I did.

The CDs specialise in geology and the formation of alluvial gold nuggets, whereas the book is 100% about how to loam up ground and determine if there's an payable deposit in the area.

They're available from "The Prospector's Patch" and "Reed's Prospecting" in Perth and I think they'll soon be in "The Prospector's Shop" in Bunbury.

Like I say, I have no business connection, I just reckon they're worth reading.

Titles: "Loaming for gold in the 21st century",,,,,,,,,,the book,,,,,,,,,,the CDs are "Basic Geology for W.A. prospectors",,,,,,,,,,,,and "Formation of deposits and nugget gold" (with emphasis on W.A.)

I hope Cliff doesn't mind the advertising but these books are a great help to anyone.

HTH,

Cat

I have not read this publication , but I will buy it and read it because for one thing I am of the opinion that many of the good finds in the future are going to be won from using old methods of location like loaming and not dumb luck, or simply walking over it, we might have to go full circle and start from the basics all over again if we want to get the gold.

What I mean is that is "loaming" is a tried and true method that was used to locate gold sources for many many years, then in later years detectors came along and then things changed in a way that many don't realise, one of the things that changed was that someone finding a few small pieces of gold and then removing them, actually removed the indicators that could have led to the discovery of a larger more lucrative source, the nuggets obviously would have come from somewhere, there are probably many instances where this had occurred and the source of the nuggets still lays undiscovered.

au-fever

Au-fever,

You've hit the nail on the head with this,,,,,,,,"one of the things that changed was that someone finding a few small pieces of gold and then removing them, actually removed the indicators that could have led to the discovery of a larger more lucrative source, the nuggets obviously would have come from somewhere, there are probably many instances where this had occurred and the source of the nuggets still lays undiscovered,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"

The above is one of the main reasons that recreational operators get abused when found on private leases. Take the gold and yet don't tell anyone what or where it was found.

As we often say about lease jumpers,,,,"Thank you very much you robbing bar steward, I'll be thinking of ya the next time I pay the rent & rates on me block".

Cat

Yeah people removing obvious markers like gold nuggets has to hurt the lease holders and all of us now and in the future. It's a real shame there isn't a project that allows for these details to be compiled. A quick photo and GPS coords to be uploaded into a secure data base that won't get released now but into the future or one that allows the current lease holder access to it for their lease area. Something that won't mean we will have to loam haphazardly in the future and also allow responsible people to help lease holders. This is something maybe for the prospecting associations or detector manufactures and mining corps could get behind....not sure. One thing for sure is lease jumping or prospecting on private property is a mugs game and all it does is make it harder for the honest people out there who actually have respect for people and people's property. A bad thing for the good folk who have respect is that we are the ones who don't leave rubbish or unfilled holes or damage fences or steal. Fence jumpers should be shot on sight with rubber bullets. Cheers

Good post Cat , when tector operators come into true greenfields areas we do locate the nuggets . There is no getting around it that no matter how secretive  ,it always comes undone , even many years on , due to old blokes getting old & decide to let the cat out of the bag etc . The exploration geos get a gift of the gold run in some cases through this after some time when companies are floated , after all we are all looked on as busted ase  & get they get the BIGGEST GREENFIELD FIND thing ever at the wa awards in the Kal drillers carry on etc

But really if the small / large nuggets were picked up in the first place & taken ,it would not penalise them anyway , they start with grab/soil samples only . That wont indicate as well as a metal detector run if its there & when you chase it up the slope where it stops . As soon as these geo mining people realise that we can fast track their exploration by many years & less cost , mines could come into production a lot sooner & the metal detector operators will be better off too . If old Graham Hutton was alive today , the Sandfire forefather , he would acknowledge that im sure , albo.
this post was edited make my opinion more clear .

Loaming for gold in the 21st century,
agree cat have this one some good info in here re using a small dryblower to increase your sample size = pick up the trail with smaller PPM concerntration.

Some good posts guys but I have to disagree with some of the points made.

1. Most of the areas where companies have been is proven ground by the old timers.  And it's still tied up by the company after they have finished and left a big hole in the ground, sometimes full of undrinkable water.  Will they come back ?? who knows
 
2. Yes they do go drilling in new areas but if you check it out, it is still areas where the old timers have been but gold was in short supply.  It seems mining for scraps isn't a problem for them.

3. They are now searching outside the "Box" but with their modern technology (something we don't have) they are finding new areas.

It doesn't matter how much gold was found in an area, ya can bet ya bottom dollar some mob has been drilling deep.  
I might not see it in my time but I reckon someone will drill the Darling Ranges close to Perth one day.
Just my rambling opinion.

PS.  the agreement this forum had with the tenement holder for the 2013 muster, he requested all finds were marked with GPS coords and send to them.  It's the least you can do to help the tenement holder if they have given you permission to get on the leases.

Most operators like myself who have spent hundreds if not thousands of hours on the ground with a detector would have dozens of productive spots and old patches that we have kept for the most part to ourselves, going back and having another go from time to time with a new machine or coil.

Some areas that I have worked over the years I could easily plot each and every find individually as for one thing you never seem to forget the spots that you have found nuggets in do you?, if I was to plot these spots that were productive and in some cases I have never located the source or even looked for it for that matter, due to time constraints or whatever, odds are that there would be one or two viable sources worth working in some of these spots, surely this compiled information would be of great value to a mining company who was considering opening up that  particular area, this information used alongside soil sampling and drilling would give a more complete picture, plotting of individual finds in a given area would of course create a pattern of distribution of the surface gold.

Many places where I have found good gold show little or nothing to the eye, some are the sorts of spots that you would walk through to get to somewhere else that appears more appealing, some areas that will produce gold are covered with metres of overburden but having found gold on the fringes of them you know that there can be more gold to be found, this is also the same for some salt lake areas, for example like around the Island south of Cue where the old timers were digging to the gravels on the edges of the salt lake to retrieve nuggets shed from the Island, some dredging was carried out on the lake but you have to wonder, with the knowledge that thousands of ounces of gold was retrieved from the Island itself how much still lays deep out on the salt, also apart from nuggets there would be of course lots of fine gold that has been worked down into it from the surrounding areas such as the other smaller islands in the lake, the northern mainland side of the salt as well as the south eastern side too, all these areas have produced gold in large quantities, surely the lake itself would be a viable proposition if mined seasonally. 

But in truth most of us detector operators are seen as something akin to vermin by the majority mining companies and lease holders so what could actually be valuable information to them is not available to them to be utilised simply because of the attitudes shown towards us, a forward thinking company or individual who is willing to allow access in exchange for first hand find information could benefit from it, with little or no cost to them, lets face the facts for us its what we can find with a metal detector and what we can get to with a pick and shovel, for them its what lays deeper down that is of the most interest, allowing us better access without having to got through the hoops first in exchange for that information would make far more sense surely:A;C: 

au-fever

True words Albo about the tecta being a modern day tool of loaming.
Some times you have to scratch your head at the bigger mining mobs.
We got the boot off a property by the company geo s,but we had permission from the property owner for years. I even offered to shows the idiots where we had detected nuggets,including some big speci s and a 28Oz lump away from the main lines of reef and in virgin ground.
Not interested they reckoned,after all what would a pair of tecta swingers know !
Long story short,we snuck back on recently to have a peek at where they had been drilling.
Epic Fail.....and as it turns out they pulled the pin after finding bugger all.
Ya cant help but laugh sometimes.

Au-Fever,

As a leaseholder and "pusher", several issues stand out in yours and Albo’s messages.

The latest detectors are now finding gold so small and so deep that it's hardly worth owning a lease these days. Why do I say this? It's because I find that 90% of alluvial dirt goes no deeper than half a metre at the most. The odd one perhaps goes deeper but not many. Ask any pusher and they'll tell ya the same thing. Back when Garrets were king, "pushing" was economically viable but not so much these days. So what's happening is that not only is the "big" gold vanishing but the small stuff is vanishing at an increasing rate as well. So what we're seeing is detector operators are removing what was once the province of the "pusher" or the dryblower. Hence, the clues to any sort of big alluvial deposit or reef have been taken.

Secondly, you'd be surprised how many gold mining companies are not the least bit interested in what you or I may find by way of alluvial nuggets. There are sound geological reasons for this. Firstly, it’s well known that a lot of alluvial gold patches have no reef nearby. Again, there is a sound geo reason for this as well. – Enrichment zone depletion  and secondary enrichment etc. Have a look at some of best alluvial patches in WA and you’ll find there’s no mine close by. Not always but it happens very often.

Second, companies look for ore bodies not patches and because of the worn out geological horizons of WA, that patch could be kms away from where the ore body is located. Third, companies can’t base their “share prospectus” on an unqualified metal detector operator and what he found. The ground must be drilled and quantified. So our opinions are very much secondary to those of a geologist.

Aaaahh,,,,,,,,,,,my old Stamping Ground – The Island at Cue. Oddly enough, many years ago there was an evaluation and economic viability study done to recover the almost certain treasure trove of nuggets that “we reckon must be sitting in Lake Austin”. The cost quoted then, I think it was 1995, was 27 million dollars to dredge 100 mtrs from the shore line,,,,,,,,,,,,,and cop this,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the lake goes from 12 feet deep to the caprock at the Old Boiler end to,,,,,,,,,,,,wait for it,,,,,,,,,,,,,NINETY EIGHT FEET DEEP at the Sandy Island end!! That’s a lot of dirt when you consider there are no guarantees that there are ANY nuggets in the lake!! As the mine manager at Darlot said to me many years ago when I asked why he didn’t mind me detecting on his company's ground – “Cat, I have 80 people working on this minesite on any given day, the ground has been sampled and drilled and I know, I am certain, I am guaranteed that for each tonne of dirt brought out from the mine, there’s 5.5 grammes of gold in every tonne”. Now if I gave all 80 employees a metal detector each and told them to go and get me some gold,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,where’s my guarantee that would even find a gramme?”

By the way Darlot was never good to me and I’ve never found a thing there. Hence, the prosecution rests its case M’lud!!!

More in the next message about what you know and deals that can be and yet are not done.

Caterpillar wrote:Au-Fever,

As a leaseholder and "pusher", several issues stand out in yours and Albo’s messages.

The latest detectors are now finding gold so small and so deep that it's hardly worth owning a lease these days. Why do I say this? It's because I find that 90% of alluvial dirt goes no deeper than half a metre at the most. The odd one perhaps goes deeper but not many. Ask any pusher and they'll tell ya the same thing. Back when Garrets were king, "pushing" was economically viable but not so much these days. So what's happening is that not only is the "big" gold vanishing but the small stuff is vanishing at an increasing rate as well. So what we're seeing is detector operators are removing what was once the province of the "pusher" or the dryblower. Hence, the clues to any sort of big alluvial deposit or reef have been taken.

Secondly, you'd be surprised how many gold mining companies are not the least bit interested in what you or I may find by way of alluvial nuggets. There are sound geological reasons for this. Firstly, it’s well known that a lot of alluvial gold patches have no reef nearby. Again, there is a sound geo reason for this as well. – Enrichment zone depletion  and secondary enrichment etc. Have a look at some of best alluvial patches in WA and you’ll find there’s no mine close by. Not always but it happens very often.

Second, companies look for ore bodies not patches and because of the worn out geological horizons of WA, that patch could be kms away from where the ore body is located. Third, companies can’t base their “share prospectus” on an unqualified metal detector operator and what he found. The ground must be drilled and quantified. So our opinions are very much secondary to those of a geologist.

Aaaahh,,,,,,,,,,,my old Stamping Ground – The Island at Cue. Oddly enough, many years ago there was an evaluation and economic viability study done to recover the almost certain treasure trove of nuggets that “we reckon must be sitting in Lake Austin”. The cost quoted then, I think it was 1995, was 27 million dollars to dredge 100 mtrs from the shore line,,,,,,,,,,,,,and cop this,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the lake goes from 12 feet deep to the caprock at the Old Boiler end to,,,,,,,,,,,,wait for it,,,,,,,,,,,,,NINETY EIGHT FEET DEEP at the Sandy Island end!! That’s a lot of dirt when you consider there are no guarantees that there are ANY nuggets in the lake!! As the mine manager at Darlot said to me many years ago when I asked why he didn’t mind me detecting on his company's ground – “Cat, I have 80 people working on this minesite on any given day, the ground has been sampled and drilled and I know, I am certain, I am guaranteed that for each tonne of dirt brought out from the mine, there’s 5.5 grammes of gold in every tonne”. Now if I gave all 80 employees a metal detector each and told them to go and get me some gold,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,where’s my guarantee that would even find a gramme?”

By the way Darlot was never good to me and I’ve never found a thing there. Hence, the prosecution rests its case M’lud!!!

More in the next message about what you know and deals that can be and yet are not done.

Cat

As you would know gold will work its way all the way to the bedrock and also lay in fissures and depressions in the bedrock, in areas where there's calcrete and conglomerate the depth can be greater and the nuggets deposited within either medium, the reason that pushing was so big in the Garrett days was for a few reasons I guess one being that the vlf machines depth was limited due to layers of mineralisation and secondly it was easier to get permission to do it, and thirdly many people pushing were doing it illegally anyway.

When you worked on the old 20A permit, not sure if its changed with the 40E permit and return it, you are requested to tell them on the return form if and where you found gold, is that for the information of the mines department or for the information of the mining company/ lease holder?, if there was no interest in that information why would they request you give it?

The amount of gold taken by detector operators is so small compared to what they will miss, this is the very reason areas that places that have been hammered over the years still produce gold, that and the capability of the detectors used along the way, there's no possibility that all the gold will be recovered using a detector alone, as a source if it were a reef or pipe or whatever can be too deep and well out of range of the detector anyway, the loss part is that many of the indicators to a further deposit in that particular spot are taken by the detector operator, who then keeps the spots location to himself, and it will only be relocated if another detector operator happens over it and starts to get some nuggets as well.

Its true that some alluvial areas don't have mines close by and this could be for a couple of reasons, one being that the old timers who found most of these mines often located them by sampling the host rock and if viable then continued to work the for the ore, others sampled by dry blowing and this was hit and miss at best, I have found nuggets around old dry blowing test spots and they didn't so it was easily missed, loaming was used as a method to locate the hidden reefs or pipes that the gold could be shedding from but this does not necessarily mean that they located its source, if they had done so then a mine would have been established to work that source, if there was not any features of interest in the area that could be tested for gold in the host rock, and a source not located then the area could have simply been overlooked, these blokes survived on the gold they found so time was of the essence, I cant see that they would have wasted valuable time trying to prove a spot up, they would have done what they had to do then shuffled on to try their luck elsewhere.

I wasn't saying that mining companies should only take our "unqualified detector operators" finds information only into consideration, but I was saying that "all information" from all sources can be used to compile a more complete picture of the profile of a particular area, this is the very reason why they are now looking at other areas such as "botanical prospecting" where by plants are sampled for gold content in the leaves etc, (such as mentioned in another thread) as the deep roots of trees can bring up minute sub atomic gold particles from deep in the ground that end up stored in the tree's leaves, a similar type of prospecting was carried out by the Incas and other early civilisations who used to sample ant nests and animal diggings for minute particles of precious stones and gold, helping them to recognise the area so they then could then look for the source.

As far as lake Austin goes, the best indicator for future events is usually the past history, by this I mean that old timers were digging to the lake gravels and getting nuggets, its written about in the history of the place, so the probability is high but the quantity of gold there is unknown, as I said apart from the nuggets there could be lots of fine gold in the sediments, even as you say the sandy island end of the lake might be deep but also as you would know the Sandy Hill side has also produced lots of alluvial gold and even from that side it all runs down into the lake as well, there's no guarantee about what would come out of the lake of course but all mining ventures carry some level of risk even when as you say all the information is quantified by the geologists.

Keep:dq;fr: 

au-fever

Amazing how the companies have now also tied up the salt lakes and who would have ever dreamed that they wanted them.    

Au-F

I reckon companies ask for details of finds because it's simply part of the deal with a 20A or a 40E permit. Plus, companies are compelled by the WA Mining Act to inform the DMP of any gold or minerals found on their tenements. But in the bigger picture, I maintain the data value of what we find is relatively insignificant compared with "helping hand" they get with our expenditure of "labour hours" spent on those same tenements. I also maintain that if the 20a/40e system wasn't there then companies (and other leaseholders) in the main would adopt a far less hospitable attitude to bippers.

Many Exploration Licences (ELs) are held by junior exploration companies that have no funds, the directors have blown the investors' cash on so called "admin costs" nad "director's fees" with no actual work done on finding anything. Others are simply "holding companies" that hold ELs for other companies when the original term expires. How suss is an EL that get's surrendered 24 hours prior to it's expiry date and it's pegged (electronically FROM PERTH) by another company within 10 minutes of the prior surrender. That company then seems to have isolated tenements that range from Wyndham to Esperance!! One springs to mind immediately. It starts with "Z" and ends with "dam".  

Cat

I think we all know there is a lot of skullduggery when it comes to the mining industry. But what can we do ?
Not much really when you think about what is going on.

Au-Fever said:

",,,,,,,,,,But in truth most of us detector operators are seen as something akin to vermin by the majority mining companies and lease holders so what could actually be valuable information to them is not available to them to be utilised simply because of the attitudes shown towards us, a forward thinking company or individual who is willing to allow access in exchange for first hand find information could benefit from it, with little or no cost to them, lets face the facts for us its what we can find with a metal detector and what we can get to with a pick and shovel, for them its what lays deeper down that is of the most interest, allowing us better access without having to got through the hoops first in exchange for that information would make far more sense surely.,,,,,"

Whilst I agree with you to a large extent AU. I will put up another scenario that I see all too often. I try and do deals with recreational bippers that find the odd patch. To do this I have to deal with companies. It isn't easy dealing with intractable mining companies and often ignorant, rude Exploration Managers, but "You'll never ever know if ya never ever go" eh! However, just as bad are the bippers themselves. I often find they want to keep their patch a secret, even when it's gotten to stage where they've had all the large, easy, surface stuff and the patch now needs an 8 inch coil to get one gramme per day!! But they'll never tell anyone where it is! So the possibility that there's perhaps another 50 ounces deeper down is lost. Next, I often get bippers asking me how to go about getting a Special Prospecting Licence. Mate, does this ever make a few smiles turn down!! I tell 'em how to peg it, do the application, do the follow ups with everybody, get the Environmental Clearance done, get the Programme of Works cleared, get the Aboriginal Heritage Survey done, tell 'em the costs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,by then they're bored, they've gone down the pub and I'm talking to meself!!

The next day, they come back, they ask me would I do all the above pegging & paperwork etc and perhaps we can do deal on the pushing. I say, "OK - where is the patch?",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,," I need to see it to see if it's deep enough to push, see if it's worth the effort",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Guess what they say next?

"But then you'll know where it is and you'll clean it out!!!!"

JEEZUSS SUFFERING F**K!!!!  What do these people want????  As if I cared about detecting all day with an 8 inch coil for one lousy gramme of gold!! I can't just take the dozer out there and rip up half the paddock without everyman and his dog knowing about it can I???!!! Talk about being small minded!! It seems that they judge others by their own standards.

 

So see, AU-F, they can be their own worst enemies. Hence the term, "vermin" is often used infortunately.

Cat

Hi Cat,

Another scenario, REHABILITATION, oldtimers dry blowings and past light gradings being pushed and dug out deeper....redetected and then covered up and ripped and a few logs chucked on top

These spots are ruined because of all the metal being pushed back in and as well as rehabbing they dig a few new patches while their at it

All under the premise of REHAB, all supposedly legal but is it!!!!!

Ron

REHAB ?? Whats that ??  a mate of mine has worked in the mining industry all his life, mostly underground.  But even he tells me, the companies don't give a shite about REHAB.
Have a look around, how many holes have been left and they have no intention of ever going back.  Their idea of REHAB is to let nature take over, which it does.  But the holes don't get backfilled.
It's the reason we have open cut pits everywhere, some full of water that you can't drink.  Do ya think they will spend the money to pump it out and start work again, I think not.
Yes, there is a supposed program to rectify this but I doubt I'll see it in my lifetime.
It's a case of "Get used to dealing with the Companies" coz the WA government won't help ya.
It's all about MONEY and who gets it.

cheers
I've had a bit of this today     and I feel good  
Bring on Xmas so I can really start imbibing  
Geez I'm p*ssed off with the whole game

authere wrote:Hi Cat,

Another scenario, REHABILITATION, oldtimers dry blowings and past light gradings being pushed and dug out deeper....redetected and then covered up and ripped and a few logs chucked on top

These spots are ruined because of all the metal being pushed back in and as well as rehabbing they dig a few new patches while their at it

All under the premise of REHAB, all supposedly legal but is it!!!!!

Ron

Au-F,

Unfortunately, "pushers" have no choice but to rehab the ground once it's been pushed. Before starting to push we have to submit a "Programme of Works" to the DMP. Even if the pushings are only small it has to be done. Often the programme has a two year life span but I think it can go to 4 years with special permission. When that programme is finished it is MANDATORY that the ground is rehabbed. That means, putting all the dirt back, scarifying the ground, spreading out any disturbed vegetation over the furrows and ripping across all the tracks that you made whilst pushing. This has to be done and you declare & sign that you will do it -before you get the permit and that you have done it after you've completed the work. They even audit the scrapings occasionally. A mate of mine at Leo was dobbed in reecntly by a "person that I know very well" because whilst he'd put the dirt back in and flattened it all out, he hadn't scarified it 'cos he was using an excavator that didn't have rippers or teeth on it. He had to take another dozer back in there with rippers on it and finish the job off. It looked OK to me before he went back the second time but someone complained and the DMP warned him to get it done.

So you can see, we don't have a choice in the matter.

You ask,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"All under the premise of REHAB, all supposedly legal but is it!!!!!. Yep - scarifying and chucking the logs back on is exactly what the DMP say must be done. So that's exactly what we do.

Sorry about the "blading bits"!!

Cat

 Cliff,

See my reply above about rehabbing. I certainly know that us small guys have to do it. However, the bigger issue is with pits and workings going back as little as 20 years ago up until about 4 years ago when the Enviro section of the DMP began to get "bigger teeth". So from about 4 years ago up to today, the companies are watched over very closely. Unfortunately the stuff back to 20 to 30 odd years ago lies there as a bloody eyesore. The company that did it is long gone with the profits, and the directors are "living in Thailand"!! 

So what have the DMP done I hear you ask? Well, quite a lot actually. In the bad old days, there was a "Bond System" whereby a company that was contemplating a big project had to lodge a physical cash bond with the WA Govt. This bond could then be used as a "hostage" to ensure the company did the right thing and rehabbed the pit etc. It was also a way of ensuring the WA Taxpayers wasn't lumbered with the cost of rehabbing what was damaged by a private company. Often the company didn't rehab anything and neither did the WA Govt who simply kept the money -"Consolidated Revenue" no doubt.     So that why the heaps and pits, old dongas and railway lines, crusher foundations and old roads etc are still there.

This year, the DMP hope things will be improved by the new "Mining Rehabilitation Fund". This is a scheme that is voluntary as of 1/7/2013 but will become compulsory to join up as of 1/7/2014. Basically, the leasholder will carry out a self-assessment of the environmental disturbance on the tenements that it owns. Those assessments will be audited from time to time. The extent and nature of the disturbance is graded on the impact it has and how easy or hard it will be to rehab it. From that a levy will charged annually to company and the money raised from those levies will be pooled to create fund to be used in the event that the leaseholders walk away from their responsibilities. This way the State of WA isn’t left with the bill for cleaning up the mess. Plus, any existing workings that were there prior to the current leaseholder’s use are to be included in the assessment. So now we’ve got all the old workings “under the microscope” as well. The Bond Money paid out originally will be repaid to those companies that voluntarily participate in this new scheme.

If the total rehab cost is seen to be greater than $50,000.00, then the company will have to pay the levy based on the assessment. BTW – the $50,000.00 cut-in was negotiated by APLA with the DMP as it was felt that the damage done by small pushings was relatively insignificant if left “un-rehabbed” and would cost relatively little for the State to rehab it. PLUS – these days the fines are so big for illegal mining and land clearing that there is practically no pushing done without full DMP oversight. I know I wouldn’t risk it at $150,000.00 with $10,000 a day if ya don’t stop when told and 5 years jail!

There, feel better now Cliff?,,,,,,,,,hic,,,,,,hic,,,,,,, 

Cat

       
Do I feel better now ?  I'll have another can and think about it  

do u have a problem cliff--is that what u r trying to tell us  

we already know.. 

regards
oneday

Do I have a problem  ?  yes I do.  I'm stuck in a bloody office and I can't get out    

use the door--its easy

regards
oneday

Cliff,

It's easy to get out - just QUIT! I did and from a bloody good, highly paid job as well. All to go full time professional bipping.

Worst bloody decision I ever made. I had a lot of fun but damn near went broke and at an age where that is not a good idea!!

So I went contracting in SE Asia - best bloody decision I ever made!! Had more fun than Flash Gordon on a Saturday morning!!Aahhhh,,,,,,,,,Thailand,,,,,,,,what a place!!!  ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,, 

Cat

don't give him any ideas cat--he can get into enough trouble in freo..

regards
oneday