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Coil swamping

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Post by Guest Mon 27 Feb 2012, 5:18 am

Where do you position your coil in relation to the ground?

I have read time amd time again about the coil being "swamped" if you scrub it along the surface.
Well, I've been doing that for years and I'm still to hear any feedback (swamping). I've done this with NF, Coiltek and Commander coils.

Your thoughts as to an explanation of this swamping and why it occurs please.

Robert

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Post by Guest Mon 27 Feb 2012, 2:13 pm

Its a loose basic term for when you get way to much info back from the ground
and it overloads the machine or gives back info quicker than the Tecta and coil
combo can process it, causing a type of boinging noise when ya pump on GB.
Very rarely run on the deck myself, find i can run more extreme settings with the coil
appx 1cm off the dirt..

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Post by Guest Mon 27 Feb 2012, 3:53 pm

How can you get too much info back from mthe ground?
Doesn't make sense to me since I've never experienced it.

Robert

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Post by Guest Mon 27 Feb 2012, 4:35 pm

Basically from over driving the Gain and wrong timings selection at the same time.

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Post by Makaw Mon 27 Feb 2012, 6:05 pm

Detector throws out a frequency, and then reads it like a sonar. ( fish finder)
If it bounces back faster than it can read it it gets confused.
Its trying to read the signal its sending, not the one its getting rebounded back.
Hence the different frequency machines ( low/ high)
A mono sends and recieves on one winding, A DD coil sends on one and recieves on the second winding..
So a DD has less feedback/ confusion.
An over gained or over thresholed mono freaks out....
So the ground basically gets over magnetised from the detector, hence the DVT from the 3000 onwards.
So instead of the machine penetrating the ground so magnetised by the fields going up and down it gets saturated to the point that the fields cant descriminate from whats a target and whats a massive electric field.
Sorry for my basic understanding but thats how i picture it.
Theres probably a better way to explain it i dare say.
And i am probably 100% wrong in my understanding aswell... Rolling Eyes

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Post by Guest Tue 28 Feb 2012, 2:41 am

hahahaha Maka in a QLD way mate thats exactly how it goes bro Very Happy

Please now step up to the next level dude Very Happy crash hot, lookout for this bloke he's got nous.

Not meant to be a f##k maka but mate you have grasped the thing at the neck mate so
well done bro, your on the exact right brain train here mate.. Very Happy

Pete

Geez you Mudcrabbers talk funny, must be the banana inya manyanna lol!

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Post by Guest Tue 28 Feb 2012, 7:13 am

Crazy Pete wrote:Basically from over driving the Gain and wrong timings selection at the same time.

Doing that can cause all sorts of problems,

I still don't see how it can occur if your detector is set up properly. :o :o :o

There's a multitude of people scrubbing the ground but I'm yet to hear anyone compalin about swamping.

Who gets it when the scrap? If you do, what happens if you change your settings?

C'mon Narrawa, you must have some thoughts on this

JP?

Robert

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Post by Quiet Bloke Tue 28 Feb 2012, 7:33 am

Shit I have been running the standard 11 inch mono on the 5000 and rubbing the coil across the ground but so far no problems, but when I use the NF and CT eliptical monos on it, I keep the coils just off the ground couple of centimeters. I'll keep watching this thread as I have a lot to learn from the more experienced blokes on here.


cheers Brian
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Post by Narrawa Tue 28 Feb 2012, 2:15 pm

Robert, the reason i think you have not experienced swamping is due to the smooth timings taking care of most of it. Your not alone if you stick mostly to the smooth timings.(not implying this is you BTW)
Yet the swamping talk now days is more to do with what Pete said.

I have a mixed post related to this topic in the brew,.i'll put it up latter when i can.

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Post by Inhere Tue 28 Feb 2012, 5:54 pm

G'day Robert, as you know I don't own a GPX but you cannot scrub a mono along the surface with a GP without getting a
lot of feedback and I would guess that it is only the filters in the smooth/ enhance timings that allow you to do it with a
GPX.
Reckon you would need to drop the gain back a touch too.

For best depth I would prefer to run a mono up off the ground a bit, but there is no right or wrong way, without thinking of the ground you are working.

I think the scrubbing the ground with a mono on a GPX could work for you in more shallow ground for smaller bits.

As I say, I don't own one, so I may well be wrong.
Interested in any feed back if that is the case. Very Happy
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Post by Guest Wed 29 Feb 2012, 7:08 am

Gee... I wonder why all coil makers also make skidplates???

I've used or still use a 4000, 4500 and 5000 with large and small coils over quiet and noisy, shallow and deep ground using all sorts of settings and NOT ONCE had the coils swamped. Shocked Shocked Shocked

Beats me. Perhaps it is only occuring at some pretty specific settings and coils in a particular type of ground.

Narrawa, I await your pontifications with baited breath mate Razz Razz Razz

Robert


Last edited by goldnomad on Wed 29 Feb 2012, 7:31 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : An ephiphany)

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Post by Narrawa Wed 29 Feb 2012, 1:45 pm

There is a magnitude of variables related to this subject....i'll word it in away i understand from what iv found. Laughing
While the the GPX can knock out most hot rocks, it still picks many of them up when touched against the coil if running on the ground in one of the smooth timings....mind you, iv not totally tested it out on FG but feel it would be the same as FG is a more aggressive timing..??
Mix that up with ironstone on salty ground and its a good reason to lift it up a tad....or lower the gain. Lower the gain if you feel your being swamped and run the risk of loosing a target or not hearing it at all.
Operate just off the ground and and you face the same problem.....finding the happy medium is flawed due to the amount of variables when penny pinching for max performance. Not all target give off a distinctive dig me signal, our perception comes into play along with many other variables to boot when deciding to dig or not.
A good example of swamping was with the SDs when the higher voltage batteries were used on the wrong ground types using mono coils.
Swamping on the GPX range with a mono coil.....put it into Normal timings over hot ground and go for a walk. Try GBing it...there are probably many ways to simulate the swamping effect. Yet with the GPX range you have control over many things, including swamping.
Strange as it may seem, a lot of people dont understand RX...meaning receive. They see the word GAIN and think it applies to output/power = more into the ground......the detector puts out X amount and your only influence is the timing or the coil.
That on its own can tell you many things...like the detectors ability to hear targets at depth....now all you have to do is learn the language. And it speaks many.
There is no perfect settings, there is no perfect height....there is only variables...variables you have a better chance of controlling now days. The reason its not talked about much is probably due to being able to control it with the GPX range. Something so easy to control now generates little discussion, compared to when it was a big issue.

Do i scrub the deck? nope!....i create a bludy runway. Laughing but im aware of the problems by doing so....helping others with things they may not have thought of or bringing it to their attention is what its all about.



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Post by Guest Thu 01 Mar 2012, 6:38 am

I knew I could count on you Narra.
As usual, very well written and thought out.

Now...what next can I get you going on??? Razz Razz Razz

Robert

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Post by Guest Thu 01 Mar 2012, 7:59 am

Hey Rob

Ask him about the :study: "Time space continuum in relation to bungee length at peak stretch limit" :rolf: :rolf:

Sorry Narra's i just wanted to give ya a hard one mate Razz test the lad out lol!

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Post by Narrawa Thu 01 Mar 2012, 8:35 am

A little out of my league but i'll have a go at how i understand it.. Laughing
Basically space time continuum is any mathematical model that combines space and time into a single continuum.
Iv provided a link that can explain it a little better than my ozy slang.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

:rolf:

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Post by Guest Thu 01 Mar 2012, 8:47 am

Oh he's frikkin good this lad cheers cheers Razz Razz


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