Smooth timings addiction

How many out there are addicted to just the smooth class of timings.?

Having been an eastern states operator i was not always taken in by the smooth timings, admittedly i do use them often now but keep active with the use of s/extra timing as often as i can. Switching from one to the other is tiresome but rewarding....not always gold at the bottom of a hole but a target none the less on most occasions.
This all started for me with the 4000 as i was not taken in with s/smooth for some time when i first got the machine. Finding more benefit from the s/smooth timing mainly when storm activity was rampage. Flicking into s/smooth gave me some relief from two out of the three forms of interferences present while detecting. Ground noise and hot rocks virtually eliminated leaving mostly atmospherics to deal with.
The lack of depth was an issue after a while of only digging shallow targets, however the odd deepish targets were still being dug out and many being gold. The big clincher came from working a notorious hot rock area where the use of S/E was tormenting to say the least. Testing the ability of s/smooth to detect a suspect hot rock and switching back to S/E for the comparison, soon saw me opting to use s/smooth more often as the target turned out to be a nice bit of gold below the rock. Where as S/E was more of a broad signal hiding the lower target.
After some time of seeing the benefit you become all to addicted to the smooth thresh and before long your a full blown addict. Retraining yourself to use the older timings becomes almost imposable. Most opt to use one of the smooth timings over ground that its not really warranted on. This leaves gold in the ground for others to find and the circle of gold being found on flogged fields by many will always be so.

Iv had a go at showing others how to set up their GPXs to work ground that we found gold in with the GP series, and the attitude has mostly been bias towards the smooth timings...possibly because they had no time with the GP series working the same ground we are now with the GPXs.

A simple test for old and new operators is to find a subtle target in your chosen smooth timing, switch over to S/E and alter the detector so its able to work the ground around the target. Once your GB is set and the ground around is now quite as it was in your smooth timing, wave it over the target.
When shown how to do this, most freak out at the very low gain setting to enable the detector to GB properly and shit themselves once waved over the target....yet remark at the quietness of the detector when switched from a smooth timing to a normal timing.

Certainly not gospel, just a method thats worked for me and a few that report back the same.

That's the essence of the GPX series Narrawa.
We have so many variables to choose from. Perhaps too many some will say.

You wouldn't buy a new Ferrari and just drive in a straight line in first gear at 1000rpm would you?

Robert

You wouldn't buy a new Ferrari and just drive in a straight line in first gear at 1000rpm would you?

Good point...but its precisely what most still do with the 4-45-5k detectors in the timing that made them famous.
The essence is overwhelming especially to the new guy. Why put up with ground noise and hot rocks when you can find mouse schit all day long.?
Why, because its the norm when you read the majority of posts by new GPX operators who never owned a GP or SD series.
When you go out with other GPX operators...what timings are 99% being used.???

Showing those who are not newbies and have done time with the older models the above operations, talk them selves out of it because they truly believe the timing their using is the best for the ground their on. When you disagree and give demo to this over same target, (undug) excuses flow .... they simply wont have it. Being confident is one thing, being naive is another.
However the manual was written by a dope who had no idea of the ground they should be used over...or is it that the operator that has no idea.??

There's certainly no argument the new timings are bludy brilliant, and as iv said i use them often myself.

Example, walking from a new operator with a GP3500 setup to work mild ground....than walking to a new operator with a GPX on same ground running FP FG...you'll find their both digging the same targets at the same depth. Both have no idea what timing they should be in. Do this often enough and you begin to see the pattern. After some time you'll see the 3500 operator starting to dig targets at greater depth than the GPX operator...why.?

Well thought through and articulate post Narrawa.
Coming from a much loved and understood 3500 to a gpx5000 I was like many others, mesmerized and
seduced by the Fine Gold setting , so much so it became my default setting , read for lazy bastards setting LBS.
Dam right it found me gold , lots of small stuff in ground I was bloody sure had the guts wrung out of it.
It was pointed out to me by a very smart guy recently , that it was just possible some of that yellow was blowing raspberries at me, camouflaging itself against even my most cranked up FG setting.
He was correct, you got to play with the machine , force yourself to set the normal timings , and have another go ,
its about maximising the potential of your GPX. The more you know the luckier you will get.

Spot on GR...now try telling it to the many who think the new timings are the only timings and check their reaction.

:rolf:

Great post Narrawa,

And to bolster your point, today i went back over a 10x10 hot spot that i flogged the guts outta the other day
for 6 bits, well today i ran the 5k in S/E over it and got another 7 that that the Fine gold missed.

I wanna just bring up at this point an earlier post i did about not falling into the Smooth Syndrome
Trance at the cost of learning your detector and the multitude of settings that are available to us
whether it be on a GP or a GPX.

Will clean today's take and post shots later.

Pete putting the fluids back in

Well done Pete, wish i was able to get out ATM, but when i do im going to try out some of that shit i posted to see if it works. :rolf:

Seriously tho... when i had the 3000 i was a strong believer in just the Normal timing, would not operate it in sensitive at all...yet on the 4-45 sensitive extra was the norm and not Normal.

If i had a 5k id be flogging its enhance timing more so than its FG as my main smooth timing and probably the salt gold mode and S/E now being over here.
Will wait now to see whats round the corner with the next model.

With the gp 3500 . Deep sensitive was my preferred setting, was convinced of this after a debate with JP, he was right.
All the usual stuff, fixed etc ground balance often, coil on the ground for me at least.
And what a combo it was with regulated batteries. Deep gold of all sizes.

Closest I can get but I could be wrong with the 5000, is enhance , fixed , , gain about 9/12, stabiliser 10 coil on the ground , and the coil, the mono supplied with the machine .GB often, works on hot ground.

Closest I can get but I could be wrong with the 5000, is enhance , fixed , , gain about 9/12, stabiliser 10 coil on the ground , and the coil, the mono supplied with the machine .GB often, works on hot ground.

I wouldn't go as far as saying your wrong GR...there is no right and wrong in this game...more a learning wall to get over, and as old matey pointed out to you "its about maximising the potential of your GPX. The more you know the luckier you will get."
If your trying to mimic S/E on the 5000 than dont use enhance...its got a lot of filtering and software happening compared to S/E.
Read up on the SHARP timing and work out how and if you can find a purpose for it with coil combo and settings over an old patch where you know there's still gold lurking.

Many folks are just to scared when using one of the older timings to drop the gain, which means they return quickly to the new timings. If not heard of/written about on the forums its not the norm so it must not be fashionable to do it.
Nothing is free, if your determined to find gold in settings not or the norm than your gunna have to work for it or go back to the norm.
However, the more that stick close to the FP setting on any of the GPX models = more gold left for those who venture outside of the norm.
Your old mate new something.

My opinion..we dont really need another new detector in this platform. We have barley touched on the ones we have, and have a long way to go before we ring their necks for all their worth. I think the 5000 has enough shit on it to keep us busy for a few years yet.
Immunity to EMI would be nice tho.

Very good post Narrawa!

I am not experienced in this hobby at all. Started out with a 4500 and kept it in factory settings for most of the time. Upgraded to a 5000 last year....just for the sake of upgrading. Only recently discovered the potential that the 5000 have. I am still in the experimental phase though, learning by trial and error. Might come and pay you a visit one day. It's so much better, it saves a lot of time, money and frustration if you can learn from somebody experienced.

Anyway, keep on posting.

xxxxGold

xxxxGold,.. Might come and pay you a visit one day. It's so much better, it saves a lot of time, money and frustration if you can learn from somebody experienced.

Mate i thought this to when standing in front of Johnathan Porter.
The information back than was on the GP series and you were overloaded to the point of frustration.
You want to know the best setup the best settings the best coil ect ect....but your brain is not designed to take it all in at once...although you will bust your ass trying while standing in his presence i can tell ya.
Im not a zit on JPs ar*e mate but i'll have a go and put out there shit i find interesting and stuff iv done that works, which we all understand may not work for everyone.
No problems being shot down for shit i post by JP or others well known either, because its all a learning curve, not just for me but others who may have been thinking along the same lines.

The beauty of this game is there is no one who knows it all, what worked perfect yesty maybe totally stuffed today no matter the settings or where you got them.

PS. there is nothing wrong with FP settings, its the best way to start people off and i have them programed into my 4500 for reference when testing against my own settings.

Narrawa

Give away the gold mate.

Start running clinics for bums like me!!!

Your new paradigms (look it up in your Funk and Wagnell)are a breath of fresh air for us detectorists
I posted some time back about the majority of detectorists who complain about detectors, coils etc. generally don't yet have the knowledge or nerves to experiment with settings.

Now, stop imparting your knowledge to these peons. Just email it to me.

Robert

Robert, i doubt there is anything in my posts thats not been tried before by the savy operator, but yes it does have to revisited now and than.... Especially when things are becoming a little stale when talking detectors, settings, coils ect ect.
Something i really miss on the forums is the nitty gritty banter of all the different methods of achieving the same goal.

Its here where many learn by those game enough to put it out their to be questioned by a higher authority in the game, or those who we give respect to for helping us with our misguided understandings....me especially.
That old saying of " the only dumb question is the one not asked " has got to be highlighted so that the many new to this hobby dont sit behind this fear.
When sitting round the campfire @ beer o'clock after a day out training newbies, the enthusiasm from the new is exactly the same as what i felt when standing drunken in front of JP, and sharing a BBQ with many in my shoes. ..also drunken but from the liquid..not the information.
So having been in that same boat i now know there's so many questions still not being asked by the new and the old through fear of being BBQed at the steak for not thinking out loud....or just wanting confirmation on something not fully explained.
Put it this way......Id rather be shredded by someone like JP with hard won knowledge, than corrected by a googlebot using a PC simulator i can tell ya.


No offense to any forum but the real detector talk of yester year is fading fast.
Mans gota visit old habits to amuse himself when his favorite subjects are becoming lost to daily life and wot not.

Note to Inhere, see the term "wot not" used in the above example....a pox on you if you question it again. :rolf:

Pox onya "Wot Not" get to the clinic ya septic bugger :rolf: :rolf:

I've got a "wot not" and I love playing with it but all jokes aside, there is no such thing as a dumb question. If you don't ask, ya never learn.
But there have been times I've asked a dumb question about my extreme and then thought to myself, "I've done it" and it either worked or it didn't, so why did I ask. The answer to that is, assurance from experienced operators that we are either right or wrong.
Hate to think of the questions I'll ask if I upgrade.
Now that scares me, I'll look dumb. shouldn't have said that, no comments required thankyou

Total noob at the 5k machine as i have only had it a few weeks, Fine gold is nice and easy as you can just keep cranking the gain as high as possible. But today i mucked around with deep and really love it although i didnt have a real small test piece to play with so i am not sure if i am missing the tiddlers.
Can i ask a silly question? Yes you say! ok here it comes..
I worked in a really junky area, 1 target every square metre, but i know there gold there. Now how on earth do i get descrim to work?
I cranked it to 10 and still filled a bag full of lead, brass, copper, and even a silver bullet casing?
Now does descrim just blank out tin/ steel, and still signal off on the items above?
I know everyone says never use descrim and dig every target, but this is literally a rubbish dump...
After reading this post i am going to try different settings. I played with every setting except coin/ relic but found deep to be a nice happy medium in hot ground. I would love to get sharp cranked some day when i sort this baby out ...

Hi Maka

Think you'll find discrim works on "ferrous" targets, i.e. those containing iron.

All the targets you described that you dug are all "non-ferrous" i.e. they don't contain iron.

Sounds like its workin' perfect, keep goin' and get some gold buddy!

Narrawa

"Something i really miss on the forums is the nitty gritty banter of all the different methods of achieving the same goal."

I think the reason for the lack of this is due to the GPX series.
The GP series was a lot less complicated as regards choice of settings and timings.
From memory, I think the 4000 had some 250-odd combinations of settings/timings to choose from.
Many of those savvy detectorists who have worked out the better-read less used-combo's are disinclined to let everyone know about them because gold is becoming more scarce.

Thank goodness for the likes of JP and yourself who don't mind disseminating info.

Robert

Makaw

Now how on earth do i get descrim to work?

In your post you dont make mention of the coil you were using...remember, discriminate only works with the DD coil.
When your working with discriminator you'll find the best way after finding a target is to wip the coil over the target. If is junk it will blank out or give a broken thresh...you'll know.
Yet the discriminators are not very reliable on targets at depth nor shallow ones in many situations. Use at your own risk or do as they say...dig everything.

You made mention of mucking around with Deep, was that Deep in the audio setting or Deep on the front switch.??
Ether way it would still mean the audio filter Deep was used if unaltered from the FP setting if Deep was set on the front end cap switch.
Deep is a brilliant way to learn a few things when starting out. Probable its best and most noticeable effect is its ability to amplify. The other is its ability to smooth out the threshold a little by clipping the highs and lows of the audio. The effect that chafes my butt, is it also makes the ground groan, and is why i dont use it. On the GP series it was a much preferred setting. There are other things happening behind the scenes when Deep is being used but im unable to explain them properly and would best be done by JP.
It may have been when selecting Deep and using Mono on the Coil Rx switch together.??..its nothing to worry about as most of us use settings without fully understanding what it is we are doing by selecting certain combos anyway.
We just know sometimes it works well and the detector still switches on afterwards.

Something i found early in the peace when changing up from the 4000 to the 4500 was the ability to use the Boost setting in the audio, this feature was not able to be used successfully with the 4000, and is what i use 99% of the time on the 4500. It has the ability to really bump up the signal, but with it comes caution due to its erratic behavior and can take time to get use to if moving up to more advanced settings. A word of caution if deciding to use Boost early in the peace of your learning, and that is, once you become use to it, you seldom return to the other audio filters when things get rough. This can lead to you going bald rapidly and its a good thing to remember you have other options to stop baldness.

Robert.

From memory, I think the 4000 had some 250-odd combinations of settings/timings to choose from.

Yet when you look about the place there is hardly any real discussions on the nitty gritty of the GPX range.??
Should have called the thread "life after the 3500".

Many of those savvy detectorists who have worked out the better-read less used-combo's are disinclined to let everyone know about them because gold is becoming more scarce.

Let-em... you'll always find there is someone stealing your thunder long before you thought of it.....and tthat thunder is heard far and wide.
I use to shuv a forked stick under my bungy cord when i had the 3000 to take the weight of the coils. I run into a bloke doing the same thing yet i dont recall ever telling anyone of it... other than me mate who use to laugh at it...if only we new.

Thank goodness for the likes of JP and yourself who don't mind disseminating info.

Most of it is only new to those who are new themselves, much of it is is old news reworded, and much of it may not be worded the way it was when i first read it...allow for some mistakes because im still learning myself, and if some old forgotten bit of info helps to ignite the fire....thats a good thing.

Gday Narrawa,
I have been a big fan of sensitive since my days with the Extreme. I just sorta transfered that to the 4000 and the results that came were a bonus.
I normally have a play with the settings and try to get the best result. Sensitive,Deep on the front panel with the Gain on 8,9 or 10 seems the go. Somebody told me that the Sensitive in the soil timings wasnt as good as running in Normal,with the Deep setting. Tried it out over some deep targets and you could barely hear them in Normal
Others have said,or was it the manual,that sensitive is better for shallow gold,and not so good with bigger deep gold running a big Coil. Hmmmmm who writes that shit?
Just for sh#ts and giggles,ran a 10" Joey mono in a creek out Mudgee way,with the General/Normal combo. What a Joke! Switched back to sensitive /deep and ran it over a target in a crevase.....BINGO.
So its great with small coils in deep mode as well.
I cant remember the last time I got a hot rock either.
Do you reckon the 4000-4500 are more sensitive to deeper Gold?
Seeing how the 5000`s seem to handle EMI better,does this mean the 5k is less sensitive?

I have been a big fan of sensitive since my days with the Extreme. I just sorta transfered that to the 4000 and the results that came were a bonus.

I took longer to figure this out and was still using the 4000 in normal timing when transitioning from the 3000 to the 4000 at first.
Wasn't long before i saw the benefits of sensitive extra on the 4000 either. This kept me from falling victim to the timing it was made famous for most of the time...S/S.
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Do you reckon the 4000-4500 are more sensitive to deeper Gold?

I think because of the manual functionality of the GPXs you could say that, we are able to alter a lot of the feedback now compared to the earlier models and with that must come sensitivity to deeper gold.
Many ask for new detector to go deeper into the ground, but i think these ones go pretty deep now, its just that we end up with a new model long before the old has taught us all it can.
I always get my missus to use her 4k with deep in the audio when using S/S, simply because of its amplification abilities.
I also think gain is everything on the 4k if using it in S/S along with a very low threshold.

I also think gain is everything on the 4k if using it in S/S along with a very low threshold.

by that do you mean crank the gain up a bit.
cheers...reg

As far as the day and ground will allow...yes.

Had the 4k when i was prospecting over east in sth oz & Vic, and i gotta say i was suss about the s/smooth
timing right from the start, my impression was that it dumbed down the machine just a tad to much to
give us the extra smoothness in the threshold, and i like to hear some mineral under me coil also.

So, because i was mainly in very thick ground cover the 10x5 Joey Mono was a good old favorite for
me and the settings i would use where Deep,Sens - Extra,Fixed,M = Mono,Audio - Boost,Gain -10>13,Motion v/slow
even though swinging reasonably fast.
The Normal Mode was good but just a tad hard to control on really hot spots, and for me it didn't
have the same sharp zippy target responses, keeping in mind i wasn't running big deep gold coils or settings.

Also keep in mind how important the setting of the threshold is, some settings on the GPX can actually
reduce the threshold a poofteenth, and some lift it by the same margin, so a final tweak on the threshold
While doing the GB can be done to not only smooth out the detector but also lift the target response up too.

The "Bogene" settings where a big thing on the SD2200/GP series to try and lift the audio performance
and hear the deeper gold and smooth out the threshold on filthy ground, and to some degree they did just
that, but in my opinion they are of no use at all on the GPX range as we now have the ability to singularly
control each individual setting and to give far better performance..

Pete

Most bodacious post Pete, hey Robert, we have flushed out one of those disinclined to let on operators.

Hmmm?? boost on the 4k with small coils...My women uses a small coil 14x7 on her 4k....thx Pete ...wont she be tickled pink when i tell her how good i am for coming up with that.
Seriously it never crossed my mind again to fiddle with boost on her 4k after i upgraded...thx for that one mate.....but im still gunna tell her it was my idea.:rolf:

I love Sharp on the 4500 with the 10x5 DD ripen it up creek beds.
This combo is fantastic if there's junk about and is only just behind that of a mono in my opinion, but with the added benefit of Disc. Note to self...remember to water proof Commander 10x5 DD before ripping into creeks again.